Working for the man.
Tue, 09/21/2010 - 10:18am
Hey Folks,
I'm still enjoying a bit of a board diet...I wanted to pose a discussion topic, though. I was watching this weeks episode of Mad Men and (MINOR SPOILER) there was an amusing bit where Peggy is called out on the fact that her advertising firm works with clients that have questionable/despicable policies(END SPOILER). My wife and I have had conversations like this over the years. She used to be the executive assistant for a corporate PR firm and her boss was a former campaign manager for Reagan and close friends with Henry Kissinger. My wife didn't shred documents or anything...she just scheduled playdates for her bosses children, booked flights, hotels, and other logistical stuff. But a huge part of our income came from the MAN. I know a lot of you have jobs, even temp jobs, working for banks and other corporations that are often the targets of counter-culture conversations involving our friends or ourselves.
How does that make everyone feel? Does actually quitting a job like that count as "sticking it to the man?" If all your doing is taking a paycheck for doing tasks that are, out of context, pretty neutral in nature (like making copies or something), but in the larger context of your life that paycheck helps you create some incredibly positive things in an arts scene and beyond, is it worth it? Do we all need to be working for ourselves or for PETA/Soros/HabitatForHumanity in order to feel like we have a clean conscience?
I'm curious as to what people think!
Wed, 09/22/2010 - 12:43am
#2
Do what you love
It's simple.
And it can mean working a temp/corporate job.
I'm a freelance sound engineer for money. I work events for clients, sometimes great art and sometimes corporate hogwash. They aren't my employer, persay, my employer is the theatre that rents to these clowns...and occasionally, these great artists.
And my employer has a small army of independent types like me, who piece together income in order to make our art. And in the best circumstances, these employers support the fact that for a month at a time, we might be unavailable to work because we are working for ourselves, touring, making an album, whatever.
But I love to engineer live sound. I learn something new every time, even if it's for a L'Oreal town hall style employee meeting.
And it helps me house my piano in my great new apartment. Remember, I do this job for money. If I didn't need money, I'd play music all the time. But I do need money. Hello, reality.
So I'm not angry when my company brings in some jerk-whose-philosophies-i-oppose who I have to work sound for. That jerk is enabling me to make a new album, or save for tour.
It's certainly easier when your employer and colleagues are aware of and respect the work you do for yourself, and know that this "job" is "on the side."
It would be an ideal world where benefactors came in droves. But I fear the Medicis are long gone. Meanwhile, I'll kick the can down the street a little bit.
As long as I can be me while I kick it.
Wed, 09/22/2010 - 3:12pm
#3
working for the man
I basically agree with what everybody said. This is a system we are living in--it doesn't actually allow us to individually make "moral" choices about how to survive (sometimes you get "lucky" but in the main, no). Over the years I've made my living doing farm labor, raising money for the Republican National Committee, selling central air conditioning, and editing books about crucial medical procedures that could save thousands of lives, among other things. Everyone is completely embedded in the workings of this system, unless you are a hermit living in the woods somewhere (and even in that case, if you are "hermiting" in the U.S., you would only be able to do it because of America's position in the world).
That being said, some jobs DO cross the line--concentration camp guard or one of those CIA assassins that Doug sings about. But even in those cases, just refusing to do those jobs does not fundamentally change the system.
If you are worried about moral choices, then your responsibility is to oppose what you are against during the time you are not "working for the man" and use that time to the best of your ability to organize other people to help with that.
I think people who are concerned about the goings on in the world need to really dig into how the world works and what the solutions could be, and then they need to communicate that to others--including through making art but also in as many other ways as they can. I think that's our responsibility and I've been trying to do that myself for a number of years.
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 12:49pm
#4
Just balancing a productive
Just balancing a productive life and paying the bills can be filled with enough stress, not even considering what kind of corporate evils you are indirectly supporting in the process. I feel like the best thing is to let your conscience be your guide. I think doing a lot, of anything, just for the money is gonna eventually get you depressed. I think if you follow your heart these issue become much more manageable. I used to work for a commercial editing facility that had clients like GE, Pepsi, and even the US Army. I didn't quit because of that directly but I quit because spending so much of my life working on stuff that seemed so empty was depressing the hell out of me. I was so burnt out from work I had very little energy for creative stuff.
I had no time or energy to really care about where I spent my money. It was a vicious circle. Now most of my income comes from my more immediate community. And I spend more time with my immediate community. I have a lot more trouble making ends meet but now I can think a lot more about where I spend my money and who I'm choosing to support. I spend a lot more of my time and energy locally and I think I'm happier.
I want to stress that this has been a 10 year process that continues to evolve. Every one is on their own path. I don't want to judge anyone.
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 2:27pm
#5
You can also think about
You can also think about Right Livelihood, from the Eight Fold Path in Buddhism:
RIGHT LIVELIHOOD
deals with the five kinds of trades that should be avoided by a lay disciple. They are:
* trade in deadly weapons
* trade in animals for slaughter
* trade in slavery
* trade in intoxicants
* trade in poisons
Right Livelihood means earning one's living in a way that is not harmful to others.
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 2:30pm
#6
This sounds good to me. The
This sounds good to me. The only problem is that if we really wanted to follow these we'd all be in jail because we'd have to stop paying taxes.
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 2:46pm
#7
I tend to be pretty pragmatic
I tend to be pretty pragmatic about it. You know, if you're not gonna make rent this month, you should pretty much work for any damn body, in my opinion. And with the job market being shit like it has been, quitting on moral grounds is a much harder decision to make.
I personally have never worked for an evil organization. I've worked for assholes, certainly, but I don't think I've worked for anyone I would call straight up evil. Still, I totally support getting your paychecks from jerks. That way, I'm taking money out of the jerk community, and I'm using it to fund my own work, or support other peoples work (or pay rent or eat). But if only jerks ever worked for jerks, then they'd just keep hording all that jerk money.
I think it's much more important how you spend your money than how you earn, I guess is what I'm getting at. And, in my opinion, there are very few truly evil organizations out there. Like even the examples you had above, Matt; GE, Pepsi, and the Army; I might not agree with a lot of things they do, but I'm not going to say they're evil. Certainly, it would be hard to feel an emotional connection to what you were doing if you worked there (well, maybe not the Army, but I think that's a whole nother thing).
I, personally, enjoy not having that much of an emotional connection to my work. I feel like if I was really passionate about my source of income, there's always that danger that I could end up having to compromise my ideals for that income. But if I work a job I don't really care about, I don't have that issue. That way I can totally focus on my art or whatever when I'm working on that, and I don't have to take my work home with me. Do my eight hours and forget it.
I totally understand that a lot of people who want to be artists want to be doing it full time, but I enjoy my amatuer status. Which is also fortunate, cause I think that's about where my skill level is.
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 3:49pm
#8
work is work is work. for me
work is work is work. for me it's just time spent away from what i really want to be doing.....i know what chris means about not caring about your job- being liberated from that so you can keep the other stuff you want to do clear in your head. i have clear boundaries and never bring it home. my temp jobs i don't care about the work itself.
i've temped in investment banks, non profits, law offices, fashion companies, cancer hospitals...
no matter what my current job is (and all my office jobs have been similar variations on the "making copies/schedule this for me, please theme. oh, you're a musician? how exciting!") - it's still just time taken AWAY from things i want to be doing.
yes i am temping for a big corporation. i don't really know what they do.
it's a means to an end. it will help me pay off debt and save up to do more of what i want. which is tour and record and have more TIME.
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 6:39pm
#9
these replies...
...rule.
Wed, 10/13/2010 - 12:47am
#10
This is indeed a nice post!
This is indeed a nice post! An inspiration to look up to.Anyway do you know Johnny Depp.Depp visited the Meridian School in London today, almost totally unannounced. Because of the request of a 9 year old student, Depp walked into an all-school assembly, dressed as the iconic pirate. Though the student had at first asked for help with a mutiny, they just visited instead.
Oh baby, what a loaded question you pose!
Everyone loves to think of themselves as so holier than thou, but money talks, bullshit walks as the saying goes.
Oh yeah, I was only making copies for "da man", only set his schedules. Hey, sorry, you were working for "da man". Make any excuse you want, but it was about the money, its always about the money &/or what it gets you, like the ability to create your art, and whatever else you consider positive in your life. Excuse, excuse, excuse.
I've listened to people for years try to justify their lifestyle, life choices, reasons to shit on people, use people, etc. Its always been nothing but bull. Any excuse if you will, to justify to themselves, and others, their reasons for doing what they do, whether it be working for "da man", while claiming they'd rather be working for PETA/SOROS/HABITATFORHUMANITY, you name it.
Or they want someone else to be working for "da man" so they can play holier than thou while working at PETA/SOROS/HABITATFORHUMANITY or whatever so they can look like the "big man" and get the pats on the back, so they'll pretend to be so pious while they spew lie after lie, half truth after half truth, but it all boils down to the same thing, bull.
I'm sure its somewhat different when you're young & carefree, but when you get older & you have a family to take care of, kids, and other responsibilities, you'll do whatever it takes to keep your head, and theirs, above water. Unless you're a selfish son of a bitch who cares for no one except yourself & your own needs.
Now, that's not to say that there aren't folks who willing work in such charitable fields, but most, if not all, earn a living wage doing it (which is rare unless they're an exec), or they don't have the responsibility of a family to worry about, or someone else to shoulder the financial responsibilities or a nice hefty trust fund and that's fine. Just don't try & justify doing something that goes against your grain & how you try to project yourself You come off looking the fool.
As for me, I work for who ever will pay me the most money. I only work because I need the money, not for the glory, so I may as well get the largest paycheck I can.
Please don't start with those hypothetical situations like would you work for so & so if he paid you X amount of dollars. I'm a paralegal, I work for attorneys. They're all scum. Except for Peter, he's a decent attorney and a fine upstanding man. :)
Yes, its me. You may now genuflect.