Mo Tucker = Tea Bagger.
Tue, 10/05/2010 - 2:58pm
Did everyone see this? Does anybody care?
Should it bother me as much as it does?
Never meet your heroes...or delve into their political leanings. Maureen Tucker of the Velvet Underground is a Tea Bagger http://is.gd/fFYVl
Tue, 10/05/2010 - 4:23pm
#2
Ramones...
(Just to be clear from the offset, I'm English - Take THAT Tea Party! - but you are our lord and master far more than Queenie anyway, so we pay strict attention to what goes on over there.)
I wouldn't class Nico as part of VU. Nor would I probe her intellect too deeply. There was always something about The Ramones right-wing leanings that I could stomach. They were like a cartoon with no ethos anyway. But given the difference that the Velvet Underground have actually made politically (Velvet Revolution and whatnot), and just what they seemingly stand for as an entity, it's face-palmingly frustrating to hear her seemingly equate the Obama Administration with the more nefarious useage of the term socialist - such as the Authoritarian government the Velvet Revolution toppled.
Socialism isn't a dirty word: "a theory or system of social organization advocating placing the ownership and control of capital, land, and means of production in the community as a whole."
Aren't our respective governments on the same page as far as being elected officials employed to do the above on our behalf, because we concede we're too dumb to do it ourselves?
Wed, 10/06/2010 - 12:36am
#3
How in love am I that you two
How in love am I that you two guys are having this conversation??!?!?!
Answer: A lot.
Sun, 10/10/2010 - 5:32pm
#4
I don't know much about it
and I personally believe in having no parties, but I have heard good and bad ideas from the Tea Party just as I have from the Republican Party, the Green Party, the Democratic Party and all the others.
If you'd like to play the vote/party game the Tea Party is as good as any other.
Besides all that, it would not matter if a Tea Party member (and let's remember there are a lot of original Tea Party members that claim outsiders are attempting to take over their party and change it into something else) became president because just like Democrat Obama once they get into office they become corporatists plain and simple and all the stuff they talked about gets thrown out the window.
Like chris Hedges said, you got tired of brand Bush, so the ones that really have the power withdrew it and offered you brand Obama. Same thing basically, new package--really different package I admit, but open it up and try one---yep--same stuff--torture, no habeus corpus, war in Iraq (yep-still going on), war in Afghanistan, Obama declaring his right to have U.S. citizens assasinated without trial, on, and on, and on.
Not to be mean, but those of you (if there were any) that danced in the street when this shill got elected, are you going to keep doing this every 4-8 years?
If nothing else, Jimmy Carter proved that a good man can't make things better while serving as president.
The man was good-hearted, brilliant, honest and was basically shut down.
Sorry, but fuck the system.
ps--Remember what I was saying on the OJ Board before Obama was elected?
Same fucking thing I'm saying now.
Same thing I'll be saying when Palin, Beck, Schwarzenegger, Paul, Nader, Eminem, or any one else runs.
Mon, 10/11/2010 - 11:36am
#5
Barry I love you and I agree
Barry I love you and I agree with you on a lot of stuff. You've spent a great deal of time here and on the other board touting the futility of politics and defending your inactivity. I think it's pretty easy to see the problems with the systems here. To me it just starts to sound a bit like the guy on the corner with a "The End Is Near" sign. I think what is so frustrating is that, much like the Tea Party, you're criticisms come with no alternatives. It makes me think that you don't have a full understanding of the complexity of these issues? I think this way of thinking is dangerous in a way that keeps things the way they are. So I'm asking you. What should we do to make things better in this country?
Mon, 10/11/2010 - 6:50pm
#6
that's your twist
"...defending your inactivity."
I am active.
I was active all day.
Standing at the polls is inaction.
it's pseudo-action.
Tue, 10/12/2010 - 12:10am
#7
Clarification
When I said "inactivity" I meant in the sense of involving yourself with a representative government.
"Standing at the polls is inaction. it's pseudo-action."
To me this sounds like a twist as well.
Sun, 10/10/2010 - 7:51pm
#8
Mo Tucker
I really can't think of a more influential drummer, and after all it is The United States, so let freedom ring whatever the point of view.
Mon, 10/11/2010 - 8:08am
#9
As the man says...
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Cynicism toward your democracy is likely to make this warning come true.
Can you think of anyone more interested in politics yet impartial than Frank Zappa? He constantly badgered his listnership to vote. He was obviously fairly libertarian in his thinking, but described himself as a conservative too. He had nothing but disdain for pretty much all political figures, but he would rather you voted than not.
We're the good men - they're the the Grand Wazoo.
About a decade ago, I convinced myself it was fascistic of myself to political inflict my ideals on others by voting (!) because I felt so under-represented by Conservative government. But no party is ever going to be able to inflict their complete unadulterated philosophy upon you, because the electorate are far too gargantuan and varied to do that to - therefore they have to make concessions to appeal to everyone. This is why you get supposedly ideal candidates seemingly reneging on promises when they get into office. It becomes apparent that it is a completely unmanagable task without being a dictator.
Perhaps the whole merry-go-round is dependent on things switching from one extreme to the other. Left wing, right wing, maybe there's ultimately no difference, but you need two wings to fly. I can guarantee the Tea Party are a one winged scum-buzzard.
Mon, 10/11/2010 - 12:28pm
#10
How do you tell if the stage is level?
The drummer is drooling from both sides of his/her mouth.
http://www.drumjokes.com/
Mon, 10/11/2010 - 3:18pm
#11
Not voting?
I can understand that one might be fed up with the presidential elections, but I have yet to hear a convincing argument for not voting altogether. During any election there are plenty of other offices at all levels of government affected. There senators to vote for. Congressional representatives. Local politicians. If anything, the local elections are more likely to help out your community. Once a year we are asked to put down whatever we are doing in the month before that November Tuesday and pay attention to the candidates at all levels who want our vote: president, congress, governor, mayor, borough president, public advocates. You don't have to vote for every office...you can even skip the presidential/congressional ballot if you want. But there is always a reason to show up, get in line, and enter that booth. If one feels that there is nobody worth voting for, they are limiting their choices and/or scope. One way to get candidates you believe in to higher levels of government is to support them when they are starting out at the local level.
A good site to get started:
http://www.boropolitics.com
Mon, 10/11/2010 - 6:48pm
#12
Government is the Problem
The easiest and most unhelpful thing anyone can do is vote and write a congressman.
You'd like to know what I recommend Matt?
I recommend setting a good example of being a peaceful human being.
One example---I am not big on using fossil fuels, so I start where I can.
I walked 15 miles today.
I went everywhere I had to go on foot.
Last time I was attacked on the subway train I held my ground and refused to attack back.
I won a spritual battle that night.
Live the way you believe is right.
That's the only thing that truly makes a difference.
Voting and playing some immature game that they set up for you is the doing nothing you are talking about.
I do something.
I am moving forward.
If I road the train to Sidewalk, started fights , stole from people, and voted I'd be doing nothing.
Sometimes some of you are very insulting to me.
My whole god damned life so far has been about speaking out, standing up, and facing fears. (You should have seen me when I started.)
I have taken a step back for every two I have taken forward, but I am living in the light, facing fears, and taking shit from morons who think voting for Piece of Shit #1 instead of Piece of Shit #2 is 'doing something'.
The only thing playing that game is doing is hurting and murdering all the peaceful people who are attempting to do good for real.
I pray the time comes soon when the dust clears and we see who is for and against who here, because I swear to the Living God I don't need any of you as friends.
Glad to have all of you as friends, but if it means becoming some wimp that votes and runs his mouth while hiding in his house then I don't need it.
What do I recommend?
Sit down and look at a 45 year long documentary of my life so far and you'll know what I recommend.
I fucking live it.
Mon, 10/11/2010 - 8:27pm
#13
Barry, based on posts like
Barry, based on posts like this I'd really like some clarification on your definition of "insulting."
Tue, 10/12/2010 - 12:23am
#14
The "moron" has left the building
"If I road the train to Sidewalk, started fights , stole from people, and voted I'd be doing nothing."
The subtext of statements like these are totally confusing and seem borderline hostile.
I'm sorry if what I said was insulting to you. Sensitivity is a 2 way street.
Even though I disagree with a lot that you say I have always respected your opinion and never dreamt of calling you a "moron." I'm saddened to see you found the need to take it there.
Mon, 10/11/2010 - 9:37pm
#15
Bee K
I think the sooner we all establish where we stand the sooner we can get on with working with the right people and ceasing to work with the wrong people.
I don't need a ruler so I don't vote.
I don't believe the majority should rule the whole so I don't vote.
If I voted for someone it would mean I condoned the system that I was taking part in.
I don't, so I don't.
I have never voted.
I never will.
You see the game as you see it.
I see it as I see it.
You voting is your business.
MMM is right in at least one way, this has been gone over before--probably enough by now (, but your welcome to continue).
Anyone that goes the cowardly route can become popular and powerful.
I know this from experience, so I am unshakeable in this regard.
Becoming popular and powerful don't interest me.
Only paying my karmic debt does.
Mon, 10/11/2010 - 10:52pm
#16
Barry.
Can't really respond in deph, but I want to ask you:
When you post your feelings on issues like this, are you looking for dialogue? Or do you just want to vent?
Tue, 10/12/2010 - 1:57am
#17
Reply
When I said "inactivity" I meant in the sense of involving yourself with a representative government.
no argument-I am in that sense
When you post your feelings on issues like this, are you looking for dialogue? Or do you just want to vent?
Neither of the two.
Even though I disagree with a lot that you say I have always respected your opinion...
What does that mean to respect an opinion when you disagree with it?
Do you mean my right to have an opinion?
and never dreamt of calling you a "moron." I'm
saddened to see you found the need to take it there.
Well..I won't (and cannot-unlike the old board) edit that post, but I will change what I said by saying that it would be moronic of myself, based on what I know and what my calling is, to vote for a politician in an election.
I just went back and looked at that part of my old post.
I actually said "taking shit from morons who think voting" which implies you must believe in voting and also be throwing shit at me to qualify as a moron. It does not necessarily imply that all voters are morons.
(In another post I called a gay guy a dumbass, but not for being gay.)
It's not my job to decide whether it is your karmic duty to vote, nor is it yours to decide if it is mine.
Do I believe Bee K and Matt are morons?
I would say they are if they believe my life is deficient and lacking importance for not voting.
I would say yes if they said I'd be doing more good by voting. (In my eyes it would be a wrong thing for me to do, inconsistent with my beliefs regarding non-violence.)
alright, I am nothing special
Tue, 10/12/2010 - 9:24am
#18
Response
I'm totally in agreement with walking more and being non violent. But not voting and not protesting is not doing something in my opinion.
"What does that mean to respect an opinion when you disagree with it?
Do you mean my right to have an opinion?"
That's exactly what I mean. I think when we resort to name calling everything breaks down. If you think I'm a moron then pretty soon you think it's okay to start saying anything you want to me because I am less than human and before you know it you start feeling like you can do anything you want to me and start treating me like I'm less than human. Painting another human as anything subhuman just because of their opinions starts to sound like dogma to me. I know I do it too sometimes but I don't think it's right, especially with people I consider friends. And I consider you a friend. Dogma leads to communication breaking down and that leads to wars. I have a feeling that you kind of want that but in my opinion wars just lead to more wars.
"Well..I won't (and cannot-unlike the old board) edit that post,"
There should be a button that allows you to edit your post? Haven't you used it when you make your posts say, "Post Deleted?" Choosing to use it, just like your vote, is up to you. But the option should be there. Let me know if it isn't.
Finally, I noticed you mentioned Jimmy Carter as a man that you respect. I do to. It just so happens that he's spent a great deal of his later life traveling the world and helping set up safe and fair elections around the world. http://www.cartercenter.org/peace/democracy/index.html
He is clearly a man that believes in the process and it's importance in making a difference around the world. Jimmy Carter got where he is because people believed in him and voted for him. It can happen.
Tue, 10/12/2010 - 9:35am
#19
Barry.
You may have missed my post about voting for various levels of government, including individuals at the local level who may not support some of the most dubious behavior associated with the federal government. What about voting at a local level? There are so many choices when you go to the ballot. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
Violence is first and foremost connected with physical harm. I do not think you are violent in this sense. Secondarily, violence can mean injury by or as if by distortion, infringement, or profanation; vehement feeling or expression; a clashing or jarring quality. Using these secondary definitions, I think you exhibit a sort of violence in the way you communicate through some of your posts.
You can post in your usual style forever if that's what you want. But for the record to me your ideas often come across as trying to convince others of a point, but ultimately having no interest other than listening to the sound of your own words. To suggest a desire to persuade but ultimately not follow through strikes me as...I wouldn't say phony, but perhaps a form of laziness. I wish you would put the effort into your writing.
Tue, 10/12/2010 - 10:14am
#20
I Get It
What you're doing that is Barry, at least what I think you're doing. You're leading by example. You're a good & decent man who lives a good & decent life. You realize that politics is just that, politics, and it doesn't matter who wins what race its politics that wins the election in the end. And I agree with you.
I gotta say, you sound like you'd make a great dad, one of the best, but as a citizen, member of society, call it what you will, you're isolating yourself too much. I hear you, that you care, that you want to, and are trying, to make a difference by living a good & decent life, but how many folks know about it and about you?
I don't know if you're involved in your community in any way, but you should be. People should know about you and people like you, people who do the right thing because its the right thing to do and not because they have an agenda.
I think you could get 5000 gay men to walk shirtless down Bedford if you put your mind to it. You don't have to be gay to be a gay rights activist, just like you didn't have to be black or a woman to fight for equal rights for all.
Maybe voting isn't for you, but getting on your community board & making your neighborhood better for all who live there is.
Just somethings to consider.
Tue, 10/12/2010 - 10:52am
#21
Here Here!!!
Well said. Jeannie.
Thu, 10/21/2010 - 7:45am
#22
Moe speaks:
Moe Tucker responds to criticism of her Tea Party affiliation.
She says she's voted Democrat her entire life, but takes umbrage at the building of Turtle Tunnels, Donkey Museums and Salamander Crossings...
http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/atoz/2010/10/moe_tucker_interview_2010_...
Thu, 10/21/2010 - 10:52am
#23
She sounds like my Dad.
I wish "he" could play drums like that.
Thu, 10/21/2010 - 9:52am
#24
Go Mo. Good link!
Go Mo. Good link!
Tue, 10/26/2010 - 2:13pm
#25
why can't I do 3 things?
Live well.
Vote in a gamed system.
Subvert it.
At the same time?
Related.. I've come in contact with some city council-people, and senators as of late. The city council folks struck me as people who want to make good change, and have (some) not been perverted by the political game. I'd venture to say that IF you vote, paying attention to the local level could be more important than state/national.
Nico leaned towards being a Nazi sympathizer. Lou Reed, however, leans a different way. Alas (or fortunately) bands are not political parties. For instance, The Ramones were pretty split right/left. Ive been in some bands like that myself.