Albini to Sonic Youth: "You ought to be ashamed of yourselves!"
Wed, 10/06/2010 - 8:05am
Continuing what seems to be turning into a trend of posts about discredited Indie icons (and reading Pitchfork so you don't have to - you're welcome.), I today read this article about Steve Albini criticising Sonic Youth for signing to Geffen in 1990.
http://pitchfork.com/news/40293-steve-albini-goes-off-on-sonic-youth/
Which is odd considering it took them the best part of 20 years before they did anything utterly despicable like getting in bed with Starbucks, going on Gossip Girl, or Kim designing that 'Francoise Hardy' jacket http://www.mirrordash.com/ which was supposed to be so 'Moms can look cool' but was $415 and only available in US sizes 2,4,6,8, from Urban Outfitters no less...
Wonder what Karen Carpenter would say about that jacket?
Here's the full interview (which is WAY better than the small swipe at Sonic Youth) http://www.gq.com/blogs/the-q/2010/09/steve-albini.html
Thu, 10/07/2010 - 1:54am
#2
Me too, and me too...
SY were the one band I felt I could always rely on - but the aforementioned things over the last couple of years haven't sat right with me, and as a result I haven't been able to bring myself to listen to them since.
He says he's friends with them - I wonder if Steve has levelled his accusations of selling-out to Kim & Thurston in Fake Italian?!
Thu, 10/07/2010 - 3:41am
#3
speaking of sy
I just borrowed a scanner and fell down a hole of photographs I took of bands in the 90s. My favorite one so far just happens to be guess who?
Sonic Youth at Roseland Ballroom, April 26, 1996
I think this might be the best picture I will ever take. And with film, too.
More coming, and please don't sell this jpeg. It's going to pay for my retirement.
If they'd never signed with Geffen I may never have gotten into them as early as I did, so this picture would not exist, so I guess that's fine with me.
Does anyone else have photos they took of bands in the 90s? I wanna have a group show sometime!
Thu, 10/07/2010 - 11:59am
#4
It's hard to tell what would
It's hard to tell what would have happened to those those guys if they never had those major label recording budgets. I have a soft spot for early SY. I still think Sister and EVOL are are my favorites. I have fun memories of seeing them on the Goo tour at my university at a place called Liberty Hall. I was such a good student I went home right after the show to study and missed out on an opportunity to smoke a joint with them in their dressing room after the show, which my roommate Darren told me all about. That's what I got for being such a good student.
Around the same time I also remember being blown away by Rapeman at a crazy little place outside of Lawrence, Ks called the Outhouse. Albini was pretty much his dicky self. I think he set off some firecrackers on stage. But it was a kick ass show! I remember his guitar sound reminded me of someone taking a pick axe to a grand piano.
Thu, 10/07/2010 - 7:50am
#5
I saw them 13 days before
I saw them 13 days before this show in Manchester, England. Washing Machine tour. PrettyFuckingWoW. Like that picture.
Thu, 10/07/2010 - 3:37pm
#6
"The gig was okay, but it was no Sonic Youth at the Barrowlands"
No photos, but was having a bit of a clear out a couple of days ago and found a massive load of old concert tickets...
This was on the Dirty tour, so a couple of years after their DGC signing. It didn't seem like a massive issue at the time. Every indie band of moderate success was being signed up by major labels at the start of the 90's... My memory was that they'd had a bunch of trouble with their previous indie labels so they explicitly went out in search for a major deal. I have a lot of respect for Steve, but I'm not really sure how he can criticise SY for "joining mainstream culture" at the same time as he was producing In Utero for Nirvana.
Oh... but the gig was mind-blowing, by the way. For years it was my benchmark of best possible gigs: "The gig was okay, but it was no Sonic Youth at the Barrowlands".
Thu, 10/07/2010 - 5:57pm
#7
Funny that all of us on this
Funny that all of us on this thread seem to have seen Sonic Youth for the first time on that same tour in spring 1996!
For me the show was in Prague, I was there on spring break from my semester studying in London, I don't remember the exact date, but it must have been around March 1996. I remember that they played "Tom Violence" from EVOL and "The Diamond Sea" from Washing Machine (which I had recently seen them do a shorter version of on David Letterman, or SNL or something), and I remember that I wasn't blown away by them... I thought it was too slick, especially the elaborate light show that included some kind of disco ball opening up at a certain point, it was very "Dark Side of the Moon" style professionally rehearsed laser-light theatrics. It was obvious that they had to have rehearsed it a zillion times and their performance seemed unexciting in proportion to it's being over-prepared.
HOWEVER the opening band was Stereolab, I had never heard them before and they TOTALLY blew my mind, if Sonic Youth was a few years past their peak in 1996 then Stereolab was right AT peak power, I think Emperor Tomato Ketchup was just about to be released?! I walked away from that show with a lesser impression of Sonic Youth than I'd had going into it, but with a new ideal of what an awesome band performance should be, based on what Stereolab was doing. The only Stereolab song I'm sure they played was "Metronomic Underground" and I recall that the fuzz guitar at the end was way more explosive than the sedate buried-in-the-mix version that I later heard on record. Stereolab was just unbelievably awesome that night, and Mary from the band talked to a bunch of us fans afterwards, signing tickets and stuff, she was really nice, and I thought it was funny she called my backpack a "rucksack" (a British-ism I'd never heard before). When she shockingly died in London in 2002 (I think it was), hit by a bus on her bicycle, I was on tour in London at the time. We played an impromptu cover of "Tone Burst" in honor, at our London show that night at The Metro, I think it was.
Jeff
PS - Another band whom I saw for the first time in 1996 who i think were at their peak at that time, and it totally changed my life, was Yo La Tengo... It was at Tramps on 21st Street NYC, November 1996, I was with 3 friends and it was so awesome that I immediately spent all my birthday money to buy tickets for all of us to come back and see them again the next night. A life-changing show!
Thu, 10/07/2010 - 8:20pm
#8
yo la tengo '96
i saw them in SF at the Fillmore...went to see Son Volt but Yo la was the opener...life changing experience. had no idea what to expect, as i had only heard their cover album before that (what's it called?) the tour was just before 'i can hear the heart' came out, wow!
Thu, 10/07/2010 - 11:02pm
#9
I got into Sonic Youth in
I got into Sonic Youth in college..."Washing Machine" was the first new release I waited in line for, but in the two years before that I'd picked up pretty much everything else they'd done. They've put out a mediocre record every once in a while, but never a bad one in my book. *Daydream Nation* was my first purchase...these days I consider it to be a little long. I like Sister and Washing Machine better.
My dad and I used to make the hour drive to and from my college every year and we'd do a CD exchange...he'd play one, I'd play one. He loved Fugazi, but he hated Sonic Youth. Kim Gordon drove him bonkers.
I got the impression that at the time Sonic Youth made the jump, they were more concerned with a label that had their shit together, indie or not. Geffen did, SST didn't.
Fri, 10/08/2010 - 2:31am
#10
Who cares what steve albini thinks
SY were trying to make the music they wanted the best possible way. And Geffen offered them a relatively hands-off way to do it. True I think their early stuff was better--I guess I first saw them around '83, a promising local noise band--but there's no law that said they had to remain that way. I still love Daydream Nation--a good balance between the unsophisticated early stuff and the polished up Geffen stuff.
Yo Le Tengo are another story altogether--they have more integrity than almost anyone. But sometimes I wish they were on a major label so everyone could hear it.
I think Albini's one of those cool curmudgeon types that we need to have. But really. Rock music is not folk music. Its popular and professional and funky and grass roots all at the same time. All that friction is what makes it work.
He also doesn't have enough respect for lyrics.
Fri, 10/08/2010 - 6:00am
#11
Albini...
I actually don't care about SY signing to Geffen. If they hadn't there would have been no Nirvana on Geffen, so no modern Alternative as we know it. This site possibly wouldn't exist because those two bands, while on majors, did go a ways to espousing the DIY ethic, and championing a slew of great artists & labels many of my generation never would have heard otherwise.
I got into SY at 12 when Dirty came out, & Washing Machine was their peak for me. It's their most adventurous and epic record sonically. It has such an atmospheric humming summer evening vibe about it.
I don't necessarily think Albini is hypocritical to criticise SY for going mainstream just because he produced 'In Utero' - he charged $2,400 studio fee, $100,000 in exchange for a 'recorded by credit', and waived the right to royalties which would have garnered in excess of $500,000. And thank God he erased the memory of Butch Vig's laminated chorus-pedal heavy Nevermind production from their legacy. 'Territorial Pissings' sounds more like a toilet-trained cat.
Albini will record anyone for the following prices:
http://www.electrical.com/booking.php
Rates
Studio
Studio A $650 per day
Studio B $450 per day
Engineering
Steve Albini $700 per day
Greg Norman $250 per day
Staff $100 per day
Staff Assistant $100 per day
Lodging
Client Offices $150 per day
Tape, Media and Other Services
2" tape $300 per reel
1/2" tape $75 per reel
Digital or Analog Transfers estimate
Tape Baking $50 per batch
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by 'respect for lyrics'. I agree that the lyrics are more married to the mood of the song rather than the music being a vehicle to convey a message.
'The Billiard Player Song' has pretty great lyrics.
He cursed
Like a billiard player
Rap his stick upon the ground
Almost blind like an old man should be
Shakes a lot like an old man should
Off and on he's been here
Probably twenty years
Off and on he's been here
Guess he'll never go home
I guess it's a comfortable chair
And company, you can't buy company
It's a frame of mind
It's people who have been through what you've been through
And a cigar, a good cigar now and again
Had his heart broken
By a little girl, she was small
Had his heart broken
Little girl, she was small
Had his heart broken
You'd never expect a thing
When he was a young man
It was like an event
He'd promise her anything
He really never had to deliver
He'd promise her everything
Ask yourself if you could do better
He promised her everything
She caught on
A lot of people say she's crazy
And I know - I know a lot of people, and I
And I think, I think she's alright
Cursed
Like a billiard player
Rap his stick upon the ground
And she would ask him
She was young and she didn't know
Why things were like this
And not another way
He lied to her
He lied to her, with a perfectly straight face
A face he was well-pracised in.
From gambling, and other forms of lying.
She believed him.
Not to mention 'Prayer To God' which teeters between hilarity and disgust, before defining itself firmly as the former with it's "amen" punchline.
To the one true God above:
Here is my prayer -
Not the first you've heard, but the first I wrote.
Not the first, but the others were a long time ago.
There are two people here, and I want you to kill them.
Her - she can go quietly, by disease or a blow
to the base of her neck,
where her necklaces close,
where her garments come together,
where I used to lay my face...
That's where you oughta kill her,
in that particular place.
Him - just fucking kill him, I don't care if it hurts.
Yes I do, I want it to,
fucking kill him but first
make him cry like a woman,
no particular woman,
let him hold out hope that someone or other might come
then fucking kill him
Fucking kill him.
Kill him already, kill him.
Fucking kill him, fucking kill him,
Kill him already, kill him.
Fucking kill him, fucking kill him,
Kill him already, kill him.
Just fucking kill him! Fucking kill him,
Fucking kill him already, kill him.
Ah Fucking kill him, fucking kill him,
Kill him already, kill him.
Kill him already, kill him already
Kill him, fucking kill him.
Just fucking kill him, fuckin kill him,
Kill him already, kill him.
Fuckin kill him, kill him,
Fucking kill him already, kill him.
Kill him, fucking kill him,
Kill him, just fucking kill him.
Kill them already, kill them already,
Kill him.
Amen.
Fri, 10/08/2010 - 11:37am
#12
Steve
I didn't mean he didn't have respect for his own lyrics or that he didn't write interesting lyrics. I meant as a producer he favors vocals down in the mix and has made some statements over the years indicating that he is willing to sacrifice vocal clarity in order to get the big rocking noise that he prefers.
BTW I'm one of the minority that likes the Vig/Wallace job on Nevermind. Masterpieces are usually the result of genius and accident, and that album wouldn't be, well, that album without the "commercial" mix. Both Captain Beefheart (or actually his record company) and the Beatles re-mixed albums to get back to the "original intent" years later and the results were uneven at best.
And yes, I agree that it's a great thing that Albini charges a flat fee on a sliding scale to record with one of the most famous and successful producers in the world. My guess would be that Quincy Jones doesn't work that way.
Fri, 10/08/2010 - 2:49pm
#13
I was really just being a bit
I was really just being a bit picky about Steve's choice of phrase "joining mainstream culture". It seems to me that you couldn't get much more mainstream than Nirvana at the time. I do think he's being unfair on SY. They appear to have had good reasons for moving labels, and while Goo and the subsequent releases did have higher production and were more accessible than their earlier albums I don't think they could really have been accused of joining the mainstream...
... Until this Gossip Girl thing. I honestly don't understand that at all.
Fri, 10/08/2010 - 3:17pm
#14
Sonic Youth
were a band I never knew anything about until I saw some video documentary of a tour they did with Nirvana and Dinosaur Jr.
I remember thinking that they were good in the video.
That's about it.
Never Mind the Bollocks gets that same criticism, the one that Nevermind gets.
Don't have a public statement regarding that.
It's a regular thing.
You see it with Michael Moore regarding his movies as oppposed to say Alex Jones, Gary Null, or the guy that did Zeitgeist.
Would I sign with Warner Brothers?
I really doubt it, because I know what they would ask for in return.
What if they just said they'd put out only my next cd and that they'd pay me 25% per cd sold starting with the first cd sold, and blah, blah, blah>
Don't know.
I'd have to meet with the execs and I'd have to look at what they have money invested in and who owns them.
This would never happen and I am going to end this futile exercise right now.
PS I doubt I would ever record with Steve Albini either though.
Matt does a good job.
Fri, 10/08/2010 - 3:39pm
#15
Response to Vincent...
You said:
"I actually don't care about SY signing to Geffen. If they hadn't there would have been no Nirvana on Geffen, so no modern Alternative as we know it. This site possibly wouldn't exist because those two bands, while on majors, did go a ways to espousing the DIY ethic, and championing a slew of great artists & labels many of my generation never would have heard otherwise."
I find it strange that you applaud "modern Alternative as we know it" and that you take the opinion that the success of Nirvana/Sonic Youth in cleaned-up/major label form was responsible for "espousing the DIY ethic."
I think most people would take the stance of being disgusted with "modern Alternative as we know it" (AKA post-Nevermind/1992-ish), and most people would say that the mainstream success of Nirvana brought a slew of garbage into music and a commercialist ethic that destroyed a lot of the aesthetic and culture that had been won and built up because of a decade of very dedicated and difficult touring, zine-making, and attempting to make a culture that was a true underground/alternative to having money be the ultimate marker of success. Again, I would say that EVERYBODY out there interested in ANY of this simply MUST read "Our Band Could Be Your Life" by Michael Azerrad, which tells in highly entertaining detail the story of the American alternative rise thru the 80s, culminating in the mainstream crossover and end of the scene as it had been.
BUT I am actually not dissing you - I think you raise a really interesting and valid point. Right NOW I will walk around and talk about how much I prefer the pre-major label 80s Sonic Youth, the pre-major label 80s Daniel Johnston, Nirvana, etc, etc... BUT I have to freely admit that as a high school and college student I only was introduced to the existence any of these bands because of the exposure that their major-label marketing got them. I had never heard of Daniel Johnston before Fun came out in 1994. I had never noticed the existence of Sonic Youth before Goo/Dirty came out while I was in high school (even tho I grew up in downtown NYC). And when Nirvana and Sonic Youth were given positions of power in culture, they often did champion the existence of a lot of indie acts who I also heard of for the first time because of this (The Vaselines for example!).
So was it worth it?
I like to think that I would have discovered these bands on my own eventually anyway... and I would have been spared the embarrassment of having Pearl Jam and Red Hot Chili Peppers being important bedrocks of "alternative" culture in my life (easy to conveniently forget now, but at the time they were spoken of in the same "punk" breath as Nirvana/Sonic Youth by myself and millions of other clueless teens)
Also, I like to think that Olive Juice WOULD exist (and possibly be a lot bigger) if the 80s independent spirit/culture had not taken a corroding detour thru the mainstream big-money world in the 90s. Olive Juice's existence (and continuing means of survival) owes a lot more to the bands/labels that never took the major-label bait (Beat Happening/K Records, Minor Threat/Dischord, etc)... right?
Fri, 10/08/2010 - 5:20pm
#16
Jeff
As you ended-up saying, I never said that Sonic Youth or Nirvana's more polished records were responsible for espousing the DIY/Punk Rock ethic, but rather those records were an 'in' to things like '1991: The Year Punk Broke' (The doc Barry Bliss was trying to remember), and adoration of these bands and research into the minutiae of each member's other output opened up people to, let's say for a relevent example to this site: 1990 by Daniel Johnston, which made them aware of Kramer & Shimmy Disc.
''Olive Juice's existence (and continuing means of survival) owes a lot more to the bands/labels that never took the major-label bait (Beat Happening/K Records, Minor Threat/Dischord, etc)... right?''
I instantly had some reservations about making that statement about this site...but only got so far as changing what was originally 'probably wouldn't exist' to 'possbly' for just that reason. Only Matt can make that call.
Those labels and artists you go on to mention are exactly those I had in mind when I said: "... slew of great artists & labels many of my generation never would have heard otherwise."
It's funny you mention those two disparate artists/labels - Kurt was originally obsessed with American Hardcore bands like Minor threat, Black Flag, MDC, Circle Jerks, and he eventually fell in with Calvin Johnson's lot in Olympia after he moved there, and got into Marine Girls, The Raincoats, Vaselines etc. Let's not forget he had the 'K' shield tattooed on his arm. There's obviously a link on an ethical, if not aesthetic level, and it goes to show that Kurt was enamoured with both for the reason that links them. Freedom. He used to harp on and on, about being Punk Rock. Just as Beat Happening aren't Punk Rock to a Dead Kennedy's fan - Nirvana aren't Punk Rock to a Minor Threat fan - but he always used the term Punk Rock with the caveat that it meant freedom. And I dare say he would argue that Marine Girls were Punk, because they were doing what they wanted with whatever was to hand.
I understand how Nirvana get alot of flack for opening the effluence sluice - I abhor the fact that Coal Chamber, The Deft-Ones, Linkin Bizkit, and eventually, (look away if you are of a nervous disposition) Nickleback can be said to have squirmed through the cultural chasm left by the hole in Kurt's head - but I personally just read about Kurt championing Half Japanese/Jad Fair, Gang Of Four, Young Marble Giants, Rites of Spring, Sun City Girls and a ton of other incredible bands (I even remember reading that he tried to get Os Mutantes to reform & support them on the 'In Utero' Tour!). I don't blame him for the shit bands that major labels pushed as a result of his success/resultant suicide.
My use of the term 'Modern Alternative' was an ill-chosen semantic reference to something such as Anti-Folk, rather than say, well...I can't even really think of an example - I would hardly describe the logical descendents of 90s Alternative Rock as 'Alternative', let alone what passes for 'Alternative' these days.
Sat, 10/09/2010 - 9:46am
#17
Good stuff
Thanks for sharing fellas. I love nerding out on this shit.
As far as answering the question about whether OJ would exist without SY signing to Geffen??? Hmm, well I understand what Albini is getting at and the path that this singular act lead to and I tend to agree with him. In the big picture it appears they were sort of a token for Geffen's street cred and their greatest value would probably be their part in introducing Geffen to Nirvana.
Luckily, I got into indie music years before that all happened. I know I would have listened to anything Sonic Youth did regardless of where it came out, Nirvana too for that matter. I was already a big SY and Sub Pop fan at the time. But like I said the first SY show I ever actually saw was for the Goo album and it just so happens that it was their first album on Geffen. If it took a major label signing to get them to Lawrence, Kansas then I'm happy about that. I even found this: The Laughing Hyenas were amazing by the way. http://www.sonicyouth.com/mustang/cc/110890.html
Probably right around the same time I went to go see Beat happening in a crummy little school house just outside of town. At the time, I remember thinking it was the worst show I'd ever seen. I didn't know anything about K at the time. There were about 10 people there and there was just a guy and girl playing guitar and drums in the corner while this preppy guy sort of rolled around on the floor and mumbled into the mic now and then. The sound was terrible. They acted kind of disaffected and they didn't acknowledge the crowd. Some other band I don't remember played before them and I remember liking them a little better. I also remember a banner behind all the bands with the K shield logo on it. I didn't know what it meant at the time. Subconsciously I made the connection with Kurt Cobain and his tatoo but I didn't realize that it was a label. I think I actually thought for a second that is was some kind of homage to Kurt Cobain and that the "K" stood for Kurt. Anyway, I didn't really get it. And honestly, Beat Happening is still far from my favorite band. I pretty much managed to avoid k records for the next 5 years.
We didn't have the resources back then to really understand the difference between Major and Indie labels at the time. It was more just about the music. We thought Sub Pop was a major label. They kind of acted like one. I would stir the pot even more and say that the attitudes of Sub Pop were just as responsible for the poisoning of indie philosophy as SY signing to Geffen was. Despite my first impressions of Beat Happening, I think it is quite easy for me to say OJ would not exist without K Records. After moving to NYC and working in a record store I learned more about K. I have to say the K philosophy has inspired me probably even more than the music that it has released, though I do like a lot of bands on K too. On another ironic note my favorite Beck album just so happens to be on K. It's probably one of my favorite albums K ever released. I would if it weren't for "One Foot In the Grave" and Build To Spill I would have avoided K much longer.
When I first had the idea for OJ, though through the years we seem to have broken off into our little sect, K was pretty much the Bible for how I wanted to do things. Just to put another twist on all this the K philosophy uses some the most basic advertising "branding" techniques that remind me a lot of how I saw various big named ad campaigns when I worked in the commercial sound world.
Sun, 10/10/2010 - 4:10pm
#18
INDIE Matt Mason USA!
I probably rate Beat Happening more than you seem to, but I understand where you're coming from. I always meant to pursue them more actively, but like you said, an air of stand-offishness has kept me at arm's length. Something that is also present in Halo Benders, but not D+ (By this process of Calculatus Eliminatus we have to deduce that its Calvin!).
The motive of the indi(e)vidual is paramount.
Both ourselves, and the artist.
Is what we're really talking about here whether success/feeding the ego corrupts the artistic impulse? Similarly, does an artist's output just markedly deteriorate over time, or is it just in the eye of the beholder?
Like you said, perhaps you might not have seen SY in Kansas were it not for the resources Geffen had to give SY to reach more people. Are we going to be fascists and say that we want something beautiful to stay small, so it can stay 'ours' - being 'the scene'?
Shouldn't 'the scene' always just be a breeding ground?
Does Steve Albini just not want Sonic Youth to change for the same reasons he doesn't want to change his shirt?!
I only got into SY a couple of years after they signed for Geffen, but being so young, I probably made no delineation between what was on Blast First (in the UK) and what was on DGC. I heard Dirty first, then got (in this order I think): Sister, Daydream Nation, Confusion is Sex/Kill Yr Idols, Goo, Experimental Jet Set..., Washing Machine, EVOL, Screaming Fields of Sonic Love, Bad Moon Rising...
After having got acquainted with SY's back catalogue in the order previously detailed, I think Sister & Daydream Nation emerged as favourites, but following Washing Machine's release, it topped them all. Despite my being steeped in Daydream Nation & Sister when I first heard it, it just managed to grow into my favourite album, while Dirty is probably the last Sonic Youth album I'd listen-to given the choice. So for some reason, despite getting into them 'late', I rate what are widely accepted as the best albums (pre-major signing/first major label release) above most of their major label releases, but one of their major label releases above all others. But I feel I made this judgement based on the quality of the records themselves. To me as a teenager, Geffen was a cool label, because it had Sonic Youth, Nirvana, Beck and had released John Lennon records! John is a fucking activist - right on! (Happy Birthday for yesterday by the way.)
As I said in my inaugural post - They had actually left/been on the verge of leaving a major when they made some of the most corporate choices they've ever undertaken. I have never been against SY being on a major, because they sounded like the most alien thing I had ever heard when I first heard them, and they still sound markedly different to their peers unless you delve into their original peers (Glenn Branca).
It's a phenomena apparent in just about every media - artist's earlier output is looked upon more favourably than later work. By some misfortune, I only got into Pavement when Terror Twilight was released, and I deem it their best record, while everyone I tell this-to looks at me as though I'd just defecated mid-sentence before telling me that Slanted & Enchanted is obviously superior, and Terror Twilight is an ignominious ending to a sterling career. By contrast, the first I heard of Beck was Loser/Mellow Gold, followed by Odelay, but like you, One Foot In The Grave is probably my favourite of his, along with early Golden Feelings type stuff, though I rate Sea Change very highly. Nothing after this point because of how much he took from Paleface & latterly the Scientology, you understand.
Everyone seems to laud artists when they emerge into the popular consciousness, then tire of them and accuse them of being too derivative, or too different. They can't win.
Familiarity breeds contempt:
I think I rate things on their own merits, but am massively susceptible to disavowing artists because of their foibles, like Beck and Sonic Youth of late. Does that make me a massive prick, or a wizard of enduring righteousness for rating the music on its own values (as long as the artist adhere to the vision/persona they've initially created for themselves?!)
Despite alluding to a mistrust of him earlier, I have to hand it to Calvin Johnson so far as never having strayed from the path he set out for himself. Despite being comfortable within his means (I knew someone who stayed over at his house - he wasn't there, but its more than adequate architecturally, while apparently accommodating of chaperoned street-level international exponents of the K brand), K itself exists in a modern logical extension of its original self.
*Although this may not have been a coherent argument/appropriate reply, I have to end now. So much to say, not sure where I'm going. Sleep-deprived & slightly drunk.
Mon, 10/11/2010 - 10:47am
#19
Great Stuff!
Thanks. I dig the Halo Benders and I also dig Seachange. I also wanted to say I'm a big fan of even some of the later SY records like 1000 Leaves and Murray Street.
On a bit more more esoteric level I kind of always considered Albini or more specifically Big Black/Rapeman/Shellac and Sonic Youth as sort of the Yin/Yang...you might even say masculine/feminine energies of American indie rock, maybe with a band like Pixies representing the perfect fusion of the two. I suppose you could argue a band like Bikini Kill for the Yin part of that equation. But I consider Sonic Youth a feminist band in many ways so it's kind of interesting for me to see the two groups' careers through that filter a bit.
The way I look at it there's no going back. There was a great deal of idealism and naivety about indie music before Nirvana and I'd say now there appears to be a fair amount of cynicism. Even on the indie level the larger music business, at least in NYC, appears to be still controlled by a handful of large groups. In the 90's it was all about distribution. The internet blew that issue out of the water. Now that the survival of most artists is much more dependent upon live performances I think it's more about booking agents.
Much as I view religion, I feel like when it comes to the social or business aspects of making art I like to live by the codes that inspire me, thus creating my own little path from the stones that I've picked up along my journey. From the beginning, OJ was always about community and that's what it is for better or worse. I suppose you can say I'm the filter or something like that but if someone wants to put in the time and energy into becoming a part of this community they can. Kind of like Albini states in the GQ article, if someone would have offered me a million bucks for my first record then none of this would probably exist. I can't count the amount of rewards the experience of doing the OJ thing has brought me and helped define my attitudes about life. It's a strange gift to not get a million bucks.
Fri, 10/08/2010 - 5:57pm
#20
"Steve, quit the sanctimony and just change your damn shirt"
On a side note, I'm sure if I got Albini to clarify his thoughts on movies and fashion (also mentioned in the GQ article) we'd probably agree a bit more than comes across from his statements re: those art forms. He mentions that he doesn't consider movies an art form and disses fashion as an industry that promotes low-self esteem by telling people what they need to look beautiful (that's a very loose paraphrase, you can check the article for his accurate thoughts).
I think you can criticize television, fashion, movies and music as industries, but as art forms they all produce valid, beautiful work. With fashion in particular, I remember one friend in high school that was obsessed with being a fashion designer. He would draw male and female figures wearing all sorts of inventive garments that he had created to compliment the human body...he had just as genuine love for what he was doing as a musician. From what I can tell, the lion's share of the fashion industry not my thing at all, but a great suit is a great suit, a great dress is a great dress.
Besides, from what I've read about Steve Albini, I get a sense like his girlfriend (wife?) gives him the eye every once in a while and makes him put on a decent shirt before they go out to dinner.
Fri, 10/08/2010 - 6:11pm
#21
Fashion...
I'm so far up Steve's anus on this subject I can tell you what ocular complaint necessitates his eyewear and subsequently help you beat him at Poker.
Fri, 10/08/2010 - 7:02pm
#22
http://www.poker-king.com/pok
Sat, 10/09/2010 - 4:35am
#23
Bee K
Sorry for being so curt. I'm with you on the Industry. I'm sure Steve means that too. My girlfriend deals in vintage clothes, so of course I can appreciate a beautifully made garment.
Sat, 10/09/2010 - 5:40pm
#24
No prob. My assessment was
No prob. My assessment was based on an interview Albini did with Mark Prindle in which they briefly talked about whether Albini was planning on marrying his longtime girlfriend. It was amusing to read him get a little sheepish, and my conclusion is that despite the way Albini acts when he's trying to skew GQ magazine, there's a partner out there who makes sure he looks sharp at least once in a blue moon. Here's a section below, and the whole interview is actually really great.:
Is this the same girlfriend you've had for ten years?
Yeah. We realized that we had just gone through our twelfth Valentine's Day.
Oh!
And we realized that, and she slapped me. Because we're still not married.
Why aren't you married yet?
Ehh. I mean...
Ehh?
Ehh. I don't know. It just seems like you should do things because you want to do them rather than because you can't come up with an argument not to. And I suppose at some point the urge to marry will overtake us, but I'm perfectly happy going out with a wonderful woman. I don't feel obliged to marry her, you know?
But does she want to get married?
Probably.
So there's that sort of obligation.
Oh, I... You know.
Doesn't she deserve to go through a nice ceremony?
She wants to wear $1800 shoes as well! That's not my responsibility -- to satisfy her fantasies.
Sat, 10/09/2010 - 10:45pm
#25
1
I don't know much about "indie" music at all.
My listening history has mainly been major label acts.
There have been some times when I listened to no music, but then when I started to again it was right back to major label folks.
I was in a punk rock scene once, but we just made cassettes with no label.
I have heard only a handful of indie acts other than my fellow Sidewalk players.
Little Wings is one.
He's on K.
I remember thinking he was good.
Sun, 10/10/2010 - 7:57pm
#26
Sonic Youth
Has there ever been a more influential, important, interesting, nurturing, great sounding, Rock Band? I can't think of any.
Sun, 10/10/2010 - 8:40pm
#27
Motorhead.
Motorhead.
Sun, 10/10/2010 - 11:58pm
#28
Well yeah
But when you really think of the combination of "influential, important, interesting, nurturing, great sounding" its a pretty small group that combines all of those the way SY do. Patti Smith Group maybe. Black Flag. Grateful Dead. Not too many. Springsteen?
Tue, 10/12/2010 - 4:54pm
#29
Sonic Youth, Schwervon!, and Superchunk
Black Flag broke up and I'm not exactly sure how DIY Columbia, Arista, and Warner Brothers are?
Tue, 10/12/2010 - 4:54pm
#30
Sonic Youth, Schwervon!, and Superchunk
Black Flag broke up and I'm not exactly sure how DIY Columbia, Arista, and Warner Brothers are?
Tue, 10/12/2010 - 11:45am
#31
The first time I saw them was
The first time I saw them was on the Sister tour and they were actually kind of scary, or so I secretly thought. The noise band I was in at the time got to open for them for one of these shows (at the Anthrax in Norwalk, CT) and we all stood around when they played mumbling how they weren't all that, cos we were about 20 and overly impressed with ourselves, but I really thought they were amazing, like a crashing ocean of guitars.
I've seen them a bunch of times since, but really lost interest around A Thousand Leaves.
Then I discovered Glenn Branca, and understood where they got their entire basic sound from, and when I saw him with his band last year, I found that same sonic old thrill times about 10.
I love that guy. I think he's a genius. But Sonic Youth is one of my favorite bands of all time. I'll never be as cool as either of them.
"Here to do great things."