Wikileaks Bulletin: Corporations Join Secrecy in Government Movement - NY Times Today
Thu, 12/09/2010 - 10:25am
Corporate owners of the US government have become even more brazen in their support of the anti-civil rights, pro-secrecy actions of Washington. See today's NYTimes http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/09/world/09wiki.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=hacker...
Operation Payback is a cyber organization dedicated to fighting against this kind of corporo-faschism: here is their video message posted yesterday (Dec 8): http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/12/08/operation-payback-targets-ma...
We should all stop using Mastercard, Amazon, PayPal. I'm going to try to use Visa to make a contribution to Wikileaks . . I'll report back about whether Visa accepts it.
Wikileaks website has been shut down . . I'd be happy for any info anyone can give me about how to send them a contribution
Thu, 12/09/2010 - 11:14am
#2
Visa will not work, they
Visa will not work, they followed suit a few days ago.
I'd be interested in hearing a good argument for quitting PayPal. I cancelled my Amazon and PayPal accounts the other day, but then had second thoughts about PayPal.
- I'm not sure if boycotting PayPal, even with an organized movement, is going to have an effect on them.
- Boycotting them on principle makes me feel good, but it also keeps me from donating to individuals and organizations that matter.
- I use PayPal (and Mastercard via Paypal) to make donations to WNYC, Glenn Greenwald, musicians I hire for work, artists whose work I want to purchase, and other non-profit organizations.
- I don't think severely limiting my ability to help these people is something WikiLeaks would want.
- PayPal has frozen funds on WikiLeaks before, and there is a possibility that this will be worked out in civil court.
- Paypal is simply working within the contract that Wikileaks agreed to when they signed up. If this was a breach of contract, it would be a whole different ballgame.
In summary, unless someone can show me that boycotting PayPal would work, the number of organizations and individuals that I can pay with their service trumps an ineffective boycott.
Counter-argument?
Thu, 12/09/2010 - 2:47pm
#3
Just as a counter
Just as a counter argument:
1: You can never be sure that a boycott is going to be effective. Like voting, it's more a leap of faith. However, unlike voting, you're individual participation will is sure to have some sort of measurable effect (PayPal will now have say $40 less that in would or whatever) no matter what. When you vote, if you're side loses, your vote doesn't have the same direct effect (John McCain isn't 40% President right now).
2-4: A gesture like this without sacrifice would just be meaningless slacktivism. No one has been moved by my twenty-nine year boycott of tiger meat. Somehow, despite all those cartoon faces I see on facebook, there's still a lot of child abuse. The question is, do you care more about a website that publishes stolen government documents, or having a convenient means of paying these other people.
5-6: Even if PayPal is going to come back to the negotiating table with WikiLeaks, a boycott of this nature would only serve to give WikiLeaks more leverage.
But those are just counter-arguments. Personally, I have no real stake in it. I believe that in an ideal world, people would be able to publish whatever they want. I also believe that if this guy thought he would be able to piss off one of the most vindictive and powerful governments in the world, then he's an idiot, and idiots deserve whatever they get.
Thu, 12/09/2010 - 11:46am
#4
I have to agree
It's a tough one. I've been using paypal for years on the disto. We do most of business through paypal and I've yet to find a better option. I might even go so far as to say we wouldn't be having this conversation on this board if it wasn't for Paypal. I wish I could find something else because I don't like the fees that they charge per transaction but last I check we don't really sell enough to afford credit card processing. If you really want to help you can always send an international money order. They have the address on the site. I also found this: https://flattr.com/profile/wikileaks
I can't find it but I thought I read somewhere that the Mastercard ban was only temporary and they were going to reassess after a certain time period. Not sure.
Another point to think about is how this hacker activity is affecting all of the other good organizations and small business that use paypal and mastercard online payment systems like Etsy and stuff like that.
Thu, 12/09/2010 - 1:38pm
#5
here's an active mirror site
here's an active mirror site for wikileaks: http://www.wikileaks.ch/
as of december 9
Thu, 12/09/2010 - 1:57pm
#6
Here's a few more
http://213.251.145.96/
It hasn't actually been shut down but, certain providers have restricted or denied access.
Once you get to the site, they offer, I believe, four options for donation.
Best of luck to you on your personal quest for truth.
You should know what Sibel Edmonds knows.