The Venus Project
Thu, 12/23/2010 - 12:05pm
Have you heard of it? www.thevenusproject.com
A pretty cohesive set of ideas, practices and systems, a new paradigm for living.
Probably best to start with this: http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/The%20Zeitgeist%20Movement.pdf A concise dissertation on the basics of the Venus Project/Zeitgeist Movement.
Let's talk about this. :)
Updated 12.24.10
Especially about the resource based economy. People who have known me for awhile may remember me saying, "Money, I voted against it but, I lost." Or, something to that effect. It isn't just because I'm a terrible capitalist. I have all the tools to be a fantastic capitalist. However, in almost all cases, my own sense of ethics, my conscience if you will, is what prevents me from succeeding in the world of cutthroat capitalism. I wonder, how many other people on this board is this true for as well? I'm guessing at least a few. When I was 21, I turned down a job at a Wall St. firm, because the aura of greed coming from my interviewers was palpable. The absolute deal breaker was when he asked, "So what are you gonna do with a degree in Poly Sci? I was a Poly Sci major at BC but I realized I could make more money on Wall Street." To him it wasn't a stupid question. He probably thought he was being witty. What's the point of all that learnin', when you could drop out of school right now and make hundreds of thousands of dollars, in your first couple years with us?(He actually dangled those kind of numbers in front of me.) To me, this demonstrates an inherent sickness. Profit as an end, to be achieved by whatever means, fair or foul. The banality of evil, on display. He himself probably isn't evil. Probably doesn't rob old ladies at the ATM(oh wait, the bigger banks rob EVERYBODY at the ATM) probably wouldn't personally kill a baby or torture or rape teenage girls or personally force people to work for slave wages(illegal immigrant maids?). But he'll sure as hell invest in companies that turn a profit by engaging in those behaviors or supporting government regimes or non governmental institutions that do so, and he'll encourage others to do the same, because they'll make money. Because money and profit are the goals. Any altruistic acts undertaken by a profit driven society are nothing more than public opinion band aids and smoke screens.
If some crazy bunch of assholes bombed my town, shot up my family and my neighbors and then said,"Look, we brought you a Coke Machine and KFC!" I'd be pretty pissed. Didn't want a fuckin' Coke machine or chemical choked chicken. Wanted to live my life without getting blown the fuck up, or starved out, or poisoned on a massive scale, all in the name of the almighty bottom line. The people that truly hate America don't hate our freedom, they hate the people of America because we allow our government to enact policies of economic thuggery and terrorism, under threat of military action, throughout the world.
Could probably prosecute the whole of Washington D.C.'s politicians, all of Wall Street, a large portion of mainstream media and entertainment industries under the RICO laws. The insurance and pharmaceutical industries?...Yeeeeeowza!
I wonder, how long before the next big "terror" scare.
Coffee is STRONG this morning.
Anyone remember this?
Thu, 12/23/2010 - 6:52pm
#2
so...
are you saying it'd be preferable to just continue as we are, or would you be willing to give it a shot?
Once upon a time, the internet seemed far fetched. Once upon a time wasn't even that long ago.
Fri, 12/24/2010 - 11:03am
#3
Well, I agree with the
Well, I agree with the underlying premise of societal change, I guess it strikes me as a little far reaching, or scattershot maybe. Like some of their goals are technological, some of them are political, some of them are sociological; it just seems like want to do too many things to actually be good at any of them. Like two of their goals from their aims and proposals stage are
4. Assisting in stabilizing the world’s population through education and voluntary birth control.
and
9. Developing and using clean renewable energy sources.
Now, I think those are two great things to be doing. I couldn't support doing those things more. I'm all for them. But there are organizations that are better funded and better staffed working on just these two problems alone, focusing all their time and all their energies on this. I personally don't think that The Venus Project is going to come along and make significant headway in these (and the sixteen other) fields of their stated Aims and Goals if they're trying to do all these things at once.
It reminds of when I would go to church with my mom as a kid, and she'd put money in the collection basket and she told me it wasn't that she wanted to give money to the church so much as to the different things the church supported, like a soup kitchen and a shelter, things like that. She didn't want to pay for new gold candle snuffers, but for the good stuff. If you're interested in supporting the stated goals of The Venus Project, then why not support organizations with that specialize in the problems they are trying to solve instead? That way you know your support isn't going towards their science fiction film or their theme park (Phases Two and Four, respectively)?
Fri, 12/24/2010 - 1:40pm
#4
Hmmm
Because those entities still operate in a world dominated by the bureaucracies of corporate capitalist culture, which actively inhibit both societal progress and the full potential of technological progress. If you run on a treadmill, you don't go anywhere but, you do get used to running on the treadmill.
Also, I would think a comprehensive, well coordinated plan would be preferable to most people. The right hand knowing what the left is doing, and to what purpose.
Probably would've been better to link this first, I'm gonna fix that in the OP. Chris, I appreciate your thoughts, as well as reservations. If you have the time, this is a fairly short reading, (83, not that big pages,) titled "The Zeitgeist Movement - Observations and Responses, Activist Orientation Guide:
http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/The%20Zeitgeist%20Movement.pdf
I think it might address some of your concerns. I certainly would like to know your thoughts, upon digestion. :)
We have the ability to solve many existing problems but, we don't. Because there is no profit in peace, no profit in sustainability, no profit in clean energy, no profit in an educated populace that can see the lies and corruption of politicians and corporate interests for what they are: symptoms of a failed system of economic governance. While we continue to live in a world dominated by capitalist ideology, there is no incentive for an ethical society.
I guess I should've been more specific than "let's talk about it." I'll try again. What steps need to be taken to make society, as a whole, receptive to the idea of adopting a new paradigm for living, such as suggested by the Venus Project? In this case, I am speaking of society as the great masses of individuals who DO NOT occupy the higher levels of government, corporate business interests or religious institutions.
How much longer do we all think our faith based economy, severely strained by massive debt, staggering waste and corruption can hold out? Because when it does, if we continue to accede to the ruling class, there will be more and bigger wars. Then, we the people, will fight and die, kill and maim one another, likely on unfathomable scale. And the plutocrats will chuckle.
I bet the prospect of escalation in the Koreas has already tented quite a few suit trousers.
I'm glancing at it. It seems like they have a lot of interesting ideas. I'm always in support of people trying to solve societal woes through non-governmental means, because I feel like the government does a lot of things poorly.
But then, reading the FAQ, I see things like the following (under How does The Venus Project Compare with Communism?):
"Police, prisons and the military would no longer be necessary when goods, services, healthcare, and education are available to all people. The Venus Project would replace politicians with a cybernated society in which all of the physical entities are managed and operated by computerized systems. The only region that the computers do not operate or manage is the surveillance of human beings. This would be completely unnecessary and considered socially offensive."
And things start to seem a little far fetched. They seem to talk a lot about technology fueling a Resource-Based economy and basically the idea that technology has reached the point that all supply shortages are caused by either greed or incompetence. That technology has reached a point that everyone should be able to have everything they want (or at least everything they need) and now it's time for culture to catch up with technology. I agree that society, culture, morality, whatever, needs to catch up with the level of technology that we've achieved, but I don't think we're so far that technology can make everyone's dreams come true. I also don't think that a more even distribution of resources is going to eliminate the need for laws and law enforcement. I think it can greatly reduce the need for law enforcement, but not eradicate it. Personally.
Also, I'll be honest, when Phase IV of your four phase plan is "build a theme park" that also makes me a little skeptical.
So, yeah, my take is that they're jumping the gun.
http://www.doctorsquid.com