Tax the churches
Sun, 01/09/2011 - 4:18pm
Here's a really interesting and thoughtful topic, which seemingly remains taboo for political discussion even in the 21st century...
A couple quick excerpts:
"...any religious organization that lives up to its commitments to its congregation and community would have nothing to fear from filing a tax return, just like every other non-profit."
"We are not talking chump change here. Consider that for every tax dollar a religious organization does not pay, you and I pay it on its behalf. Many are among the wealthiest organizations in the world: by 1971, the amount of real and personal property owned by U.S. churches was approx. $110 billion. In New York City alone, the amount was $3 billion in 1989. A 1986 estimate showed religious income in that year of approx. $100 billion, or about five times the income of the five largest corporations in the U.S. All tax free."
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 12:04pm
#2
Generally Speaking
If we are going to adhere to a system where there is taxing then I am all for taxing these organizations, giving them all the tax breaks they are qualified to receive.
Matt, in your scenario where the churches now do some good charity work you say if these institutions paid taxes we could use that money to support/aid these same charities secularly.
That's true, but there is the possibility that the government would give that money to the banks and military suppliers, so that the banks got even more money and those charities that the church gives to would get nothing.
I despise religion, I am just saying as far as I know the catholic church is not directly donating to Haliburton, but if they paid taxes that's where the money might go.
That doesn't mean don't tax the church (if you believe in taxation)--it just means you'd then have to make all kinds of additional laws if you were interested in being guaranteed that the money still went to the same charities it was goin gto before.
PS Honestly, my guess is most churches donate to charities far less than most people think. My guess is vast amounts of the money stay right within the organization aiding it in expansion/upkeep.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 2:10pm
#3
Where to Start???
There are so many things wrong with that website, so many untruths, it boggles my mind. Talk about taking things out of context! They get the prize!
First off, our government will never tax a religious organization. Too many people would be up in arms & it would threaten our separation of church & state. As it is, people already allow their religion to have a say in their personal belief's, which is fine, but when it attempts to cross the line into our government... taxing a religion would give religion a prominent voice in our government, just as it does any tax payer. I'll pass on that, thank you.
I got my first full time job via Jewish Philanthropists and I'm not Jewish, nor did anyone there try to convert me, nor was I charged a fee of any kind or asked for a donation. It was an act of charity on their part for which I was & am most grateful. I've also used my own faith (I'm a Roman Catholic) at times without being preached to or asked for money.
Have any of you ever read a church bulletin? It tells you where the weekly donations they receive goes. It goes for things like heating the building, maintaining the building, etc. BTW, the building is not only used for things such as religious services. My kids were in a church group that met once a week to talk about things teens talk about and how to work out their problems among their peers. They went on camping trips and other assorted trips so they could learn more about the world around them. The buildings are also used for things like AA meetings, all free.
Churches & other religious institutions also provide safe houses, half way homes, drug counseling, etc and trying to convert folks to the religion that provides them never comes into the discussion.
Do you folks really think that if you were to walk into an AA meeting being held in the basement of a Catholic Church that they'd ask what your religion is before they'd let you in or try & convert you?
Oh please.
Let's all start hating organized religion now. We can twist the facts, believe half truths and Hey, if we don't believe in it then it has to be evil & vile with no redeeming value.
BTW, churches don't donate to charity, they ARE the charity. They're the ones handing out the food, clothing, housing when possible, to those who need it.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 7:43pm
#4
..taxing a religion would
..taxing a religion would give..
Taxing a religion is not what is being discussed. Taxing an organized institution that brings in money is what is being discussed.
Do you folks really think that if you were to walk into an AA meeting being held in the basement of a Catholic Church that they'd ask what your religion is before they'd let you in or try & convert you?
Speaking for myself the answer is no.
The church could be taxed and still provide free space for AA meetings.
The church could get a tax deduction for that donation.
Rental = $400 a month.
Tax deduction for that $400 a month donation.
Not that I advocate gov't or anything else, but within the framework of taxing I like the flat sales tax at the exclusion of all other.
Tue, 01/11/2011 - 9:29am
#5
But what about these churches?
Good article in the Wash Post today about this:
http://onfaith.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/undergod/2011/01/what_is_churc...
You guys made some good points. The way I see it Government is already greatly influenced by religion and part of this has to do with how much money they have. How do you feel about paying taxes for organizations that spearhead the campaigns to keep gay marriage illegal or outlaw abortion? Or protest outside of funerals of AID's victims saying that it was God's Will. I understand all the implications involved in taxing churches. I wouldn't say this is what we should do but I do think a closer look at how they spend their money, under "no profit" status, is worth doing. Why should there be a separate treatment for "religion non profits?" What's wrong with filling out a tax return?
Tue, 01/11/2011 - 2:56pm
#6
But what are we going to
But what are we going to count as a religion? Does the Church of Scientology get taxed? What about the Satanists?
Secondly, who is going to be collecting the taxes- state or federal? Is it a flat tax or does it vary by the size of the constituency? Can I give tax breaks to a particular sect to encourage more people of a certain faith to move to my state or can a state like Tennessee or Oklahoma increase the tax on mosques by 200% to prevent any new mosques from being built.
Tue, 01/11/2011 - 5:22pm
#7
Ceiling
Create a ceiling on the amount you can raise as a religious organisation without being taxed.
If you earn as much as Scientology of course you should be taxed. The reasoning behind this whole idea is the Megachurches & Televangelist scum bags that have been fleecing people trying to pay-off their wank-guilt for the last 40 years.
FRANK ACTUALLY SAYS IT AT 03:20!
Wed, 01/12/2011 - 3:26pm
#8
satanists…
Satanists don't believe in organized churches, so it wouldn't be an issue.
Flat sales tax is shamelessly regressive.
I was thinking about how much space is taken up by churches and how most that space only gets used for a few hours a week. It seems like a waste to me.
I understand that churches do a fair amount for charity but why does that activity have to manifest its self in a religion? We can pay people to do this work. We already do. We say that we are free country of limited government but more or less we are just bankrolling churches, by the use of tax breaks, to do our dirty work for us. And I personally believe a more secular method could benefit this country more.
This is partially why I think our social welfare systems are a mess. It's because they are competing with religious institutions that preach a blind faith in some kind of all powerful is going to make everything all right.
It's a subversive business feeding off of the the sick and poor for converts. The Taliban has caught onto this method and its serving them quite well too. Would it be better to offer these people real knowledge or assistance for bettering their lives as opposed to some kind of spiritual dogma?
With the tax money made we could take this responsibility away from the churches and instead of a sermon before you get your free meal you get a discussion about job training or mental health assistance.
"Here to do great things."