There will be no free Egypt

8 replies [Last post]
Barry Bliss's picture
Barry Bliss
Offline
Joined: 08/02/10 9:00AM

Americans aren't free.
Nobody on Earth is free.
Egyptians can get rid of Mubarak, and they can elect a President, but the freedom some of the protesters think they can have they are never going to see.
Best case scenario is they end up with someone like Jimmy Carter, who was unable to hold power for very long due to his use of common sense and good judgement.
Longer term, they may end up with what we have, a corporate lackey and a prison warden that spews words like "freedom" while locking up people for 7 months in solitary confinement before they are even put on trial.

I've seen this before.
Remember Poland and the Orange Revolution?

What idealistic and good folks that cry for freedom are really after is something they can experience only on a personal level and it will always be in rebellion to the powers in charge, be they a council, a President, a parliament, or what have you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The hypocrisy with which Obama dishes out advice on freedom is another example of America's huge ego and deep denial about it's own makeup.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bee K's picture
Bee K
Offline
Joined: 07/30/10 10:54AM
Aren't free to do what?

What are we not free to do?

Barry Bliss's picture
Barry Bliss
Offline
Joined: 08/02/10 9:00AM
-

Really, we are free to do anything we like, it just means being killed by those attempting to maintain order.

speakerb's picture
speakerb
Offline
Joined: 08/27/10 1:45PM
where's the bliss?

domo arigato

Amos's picture
Amos
Offline
Joined: 08/28/10 12:49PM
The bliss is...

facing a truth that hurts.

The bliss is in casting off the veils that obscure truth.

The bliss is the courage to imagine that the illusions of freedom that we enjoy WILL be exposed for what they are. Thinly disguised mechanisms designed to manipulate and control whole populations, for the benefit of a few.

Slowly, people are coming to realize that we need not structure our lives the way we do. We are evolving. McCain describes what is happening right now in the middle east as 'a virus." He's right. It's a freedom virus. I hope it spreads everywhere, even here in the supposed "land of the free." I bet Brad Manning doesn't call it that anymore.

You should know what Sibel Edmonds knows.

opemily's picture
opemily
Offline
Joined: 09/07/10 5:49PM
Interview With Wael Ghonim

Last night- the Google executive who was kidnapped by Egyptian state security was released. He gave an amazing interview that brought me to tears. There are a lot of people who want things to go back to normal here- I have had my share of complaints, but Wael reminded people why they need to stay strong and keep going, despite the pressure people are putting on them to go home.

Egypt is sort of like what America would be if there were no Progressive Movement. Sadat's decision to change course from Nasser socialism to capitalism is a big cause of the huge poverty gap that exists today. I can usually tell an Egyptian's class level by which President they admired- if they came from poor backgrounds they loved Nasser, if their family has money, then they love Sadat/Mubarak. No one really likes both.

Egypt has been rotting for decades now, the infrastructure sucks, cronyism is rampant, and there is such a huge gap between the rich and poor. There are many Egyptians that have not stepped foot inside a movie theater for 20 years because they can't afford a 20LE (4.00) ticket! Since I am foreign, I'm considered part of the elite, and a lot of their behavior towards those less fortunate is obscene. The consumer culture here is absurd and my boyfriend is so wrapped up in it its exasperating. I love him but its gotten to the point where I roll my eyes at him because all he talks about is new cars, vacation homes, and electronics. He told me he wants to buy a boat and I asked him how often he goes on excursions- he says he's never done it- but he still wants the boat because it shows he can afford it. It would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.

Egypt is facing a huge water crisis in the coming decades yet everyone in those new gated communities out in the desert wants to have big grassy lawns. Parents spend thousands of LE sending their children to "International Schools" but then complain when teachers don't teach in the same lecture and memorization method they grew up with. The people now who are calling Mubarak the father of the Egyptian people and how awful these protesters are- they're the ones who send their children out of the country and try to downplay their "Egyptian-ness". Sherief loves Egypt, but when he retires from the army- he wants to move to the States with me. Mubarak says he wants to die on Egyptian soil- but every time he's sick- he runs off to Germany for treatment (its very likely if he leaves it might be a very long medical leave to Germany).

It grows less and less likely that Egypt will ever have a real democracy everyday. Israel and the United States have picked Soliman as Mubarak's successor- and I guarantee elections will NOT be free and fair in the fall (I'm guessing they are going to say something along the lines of- the economy is suffering/ instability/ can't switch captains in the middle of the storm.

I don't think I'm going to vote for Obama next election. I wasn't expecting him to work miracles and solve all the world's problems, but he made a speech in Cairo in June 2009 stating that we were turning a new page in American diplomacy and we would support people who want to break free from tyranny.

Anyway, Wael Ghonim is an amazing person, and him and the people like him in Tahrir Square are the biggest reason I love living here and I hope they get the government they want- not the government US, Europe and Israel wants it to have.
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=A90B1900FE67C0F5

PS They are playing non-stop patriotic songs on all the music clip channels, including a lot of the old songs from the 50s and 60s- except the problem is, is that these songs were about freedom of the Egyptian people, Arab unity, and shaking off the bonds of the oppressors. The songs speak more about the protesters than the regime that they were intended for.

Lyrics to the song playing now:
My country, my beloved
The greatest country
Its triumphs fill its life
Each day its glories grow
My country grows and is liberated

My country, my country

Abdel Halim:
My country oh angel your love is in my heart
Oh one who called for unity tomorrow
You are great, and much more great
My country, oh country of the Arab people
After you saw the beauty of revolution
From the whole universe, from all immortality

My country
My beloved country

Sabah:
You are sweet oh glory that fills our hearts
You are sweet oh unity oh mosque of our peoples
Oh infectious melody between the oceans
In Yemen, Damascus and Jedda
You are sweet oh victory oh cup that saw us
You are sweet oh sweetest melody in our lives
Between Marrakech and Bahrain
The same tune for a perfect unity

The unity of all the Arab people
My country my beloved

Faiza Kamel:
Our nation that we protect
A paradise that pleases he who makes peace
Look at Beirut after the aggression
The strength and power of the people has increased
Candles all around her
And hellfire pours upon her enemies
Where is colonialism and tyranny?
And Port Said's story harbored emnity

The Arab people have lived and triumphed
My country, my beloved

Shadia:
My country, most precious country in the world
My country that builds with the builders
The voice, your voice is free and Arab
Oh you whose soil is the makeup of my eye
My country, oh fortress of freedom
And you tear down slavery
No eastern or western echo
Oh you whose love is perfume that envigorates me

You are my beloved my Arab country
My country my beloved

Warda:
My country, oh revolution against their colonialism
If we all seek martyrdom for you
Colonialism will meet its end at our hands
Not in Algeria or Oman
Fill your isles with fire that destroyed them
The stone of your mountains will combat them
Gone from the world is its time
The revolution will destroy tyrrany

Nothing but the triumph of the Arab people
My country my beloved

Najat al-Saghira:
My country oh paradise that all envy
Oh you whose canal returned to your hands
Take from the bounty of your dam
Oh you whose highness is in our worshipping hearts
Of its glories and wonders
And you preserve the good of the world
Make, plant and build with its light
My country whose whole life is sovereign

Country of glory, the Arab country
My country my beloved

Abdel Halim Hafez:
My country who crawls towards its triumps
In Palestine and our rebelling south
We are a country that protects and does not threaten
Oh you who lives a life of glory
We will complete your freedoms
We are a country that preserves and does not waste

The country of glory my Arab country
My country my beloved

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqOqjgWvkzo

Amos's picture
Amos
Offline
Joined: 08/28/10 12:49PM
The Frank Wisner Jr.'s of the world...

certainly aren't helping any. I have to question the wisdom of an administration that sends a blatantly partisan Special Envoy to conduct any type of diplomatic business. I mean Wisner's firm is knee deep in Egyptian money. Then, in no uncertain terms, he calls for allowing a dictator to remain in power. Special Envoy status should be revoked, and quickly.

What's worse, is that rather than immediately dismiss him, the U.S. insists he was only speaking in his "private capacity." Okay, while I do realize that Wisner has lots of experience in Egypt, would he be granted that interview if he *wasn't* a special envoy? I doubt it. He's just actually saying what the real U.S. policy is, with regards to foreign governments. A stable government, no matter how corrupt or inhumane, is preferable to democracy. Not too surprising since, in the last several years, perhaps decades, due to corruptions of senatorial process, we are now, and have been for years, subjects of, as Tom Harkin put it, "minority rule."

This is starting to look to me like a deliberately convoluted attempt to snatch-grab and secure more of Egypt's natural gas. Egyptian offshore resources are looking mighty good to any nation with the capacity to get them.

Even Aljazeera is questioning the resolve of protesters faced with a war of attrition, launched by an enemy with enormous monetary and military resources. Sarah Palin appears on the Christian News Network and criticizes the Obama administration, saying it isn't telling us all that's going on, as if our policy on Egypt has somehow changed since Obama came to power. Pardon me but, only a fucking idiot watches the Christian News Network for news of the world. Guess what? There are MILLIONS of fucking idiots in America, watching the CBN, to get their "news." News from, "a christian perspective." Despite the fact that we can look at pictures of millions of ordinary people, from all walks of life, demanding their rights to life , liberty and happiness, this wingnut is implying that because some of the people are Muslim, they might choose a fundamentalist Muslim leader. Sarah Palin is a hateful, bigoted fear monger. Her "gonna take back 'Merica, you betcha'" bullshit has enthralled millions of people who can't or won't think critically. Glenn Beck is talking some of the wackiest horse puckery ever. As a result, millions of Americans look upon the protesters, here and abroad, with fear and mistrust, instead of deepest admiration and hope.

If the Egyptian people aren't successful in their bid to replace an utterly corrupt regime, an ill wind blows for ordinary people, everywhere. "Kalifornia Uber Alles"

You should know what Sibel Edmonds knows.

opemily's picture
opemily
Offline
Joined: 09/07/10 5:49PM
I found the perfect job for

I found the perfect job for Sarah Palin- she can work for Egyptian State Media. It's getting hard to find hosts able to claim that these protests are a conspiracy by US, Israel, Hamas, Iran, and Qatar to destroy Egypt. She can put that Communications degree to good use. Come on Sarah, join Nile News.

During the 1967 war, most Arabs got their news from the radio station Sawat Al-Arab, who reported that the Arabs were winning a great military victory- "Israeli planes dropping like flies", while in fact Israel had completely destroyed Egypt's air force while it was still on the ground and the soldiers were left to wander in the desert without their shoes. It was only when Nasser came on the air and resigned that the Egyptians found out they lost. People remember that moment like its the Arab Kennedy assassination. I had hoped Egyptians would be more skeptical- but my mom reminded me how many Americans watch Fox News- so I guess its not their nationality, people are just gullible in general.

Seriously Fuck Obama. There are Egyptians in Tahrir chanting "Yes we can!" and he's negotiating for their next dictator.

Amos's picture
Amos
Offline
Joined: 08/28/10 12:49PM
Colossal human rights "Sputnik Moment"

And it is zipping past Barry O. at breakneck speed. If this administration at all advocates for the installation of Vice President "Mr. Extraordinary Rendition" Soliman, I'll know that the highest echelons of my government condone and/or support torture and state sponsored terrorism, beyond a shadow of all doubt.

Likewise could Netanyahu score some humanitarian points with the world but noooooooooooooo. Do the people of Israel really share his anti-democratic position? Doesn't his stance make Israeli citizens wonder about the integrity of their own rights? Are you telling me that Israel is protecting a monopoly on democracy in the middle east? I don't understand how a nation formed in the wake of the deaths of millions of people, subject to dictatorial rule, could ever support the Mubarak regime, or make serious appeals on the behalf of Soliman.

I think the Egyptians have it right. Why should the many bow to a corrupt few? It doesn't make sense, and reason meets resistance, on a global scale.

You should know what Sibel Edmonds knows.