We all need food, water, shelter, and clothes.
Thu, 02/10/2011 - 10:07am
Ideas on how to get this one done?
Fri, 02/11/2011 - 11:18pm
#2
Chris this sounds wonderful.
Chris this sounds wonderful. Would you be into organizing something like this for the OJ night on the 22nd?
Thu, 02/10/2011 - 11:59pm
#3
Before I embarrass myself...
What kinda "we" you talkin' 'bout? Like a "we," people in our neighborhood "we" or like a planet-wide "we"? Just a people we know "we"?
Fri, 02/11/2011 - 9:18am
#4
Is there a difference? Should
Is there a difference? Should their be a difference?
Fri, 02/11/2011 - 10:09am
#5
There's definitely a difference.
Maybe there shouldn't be but, there definitely is a difference. It depends on the geographic reality of where ever we are. In some cases, we'd need people to stop growing a cash crop like tobacco or rubber trees, which have replaced indigenous food crops. In other cases, what is necessary is the cessation of hoarding.
An end to western style corporate capitalism would probably greatly increase the chances of achieving this goal. A paradigm shift in values, where human life is valued over the man made constructs, profit and money, which have become our Frankenstein monsters. Likewise, agricultural processes that are damaging to the environmental infrastructure should probably be abandoned.
I would imagine good grassroots models for rural and urban communities can be observed in some of the behaviors both the Black Panther Movement of the 60's and 70's and the Amish culture. When the Amish need a new house, the whole towns worth of able bodied men raise the roof. Black Panthers established clinics in their neighborhoods as well as schools and various types of assistance programs for those in need.
Matt, did you ever follow the link to the Venus Project? http://www.olivejuicemusic.com/forum/2010/12/23/884
Fri, 02/11/2011 - 4:55pm
#6
Sounds good. Mind if I play
Sounds good. I agree with everything you've said but mind if I play devil's advocate for a bit?
What about all the potentially millions of people that make their living from the tobacco and rubber plants? What are they supposed to do while we trying to figure out what kind and how many sustainable crops to replace it with? The tobacco industry is as old as this country is. What about the distributors and delivery drivers...the people that make the machines that process the tobacco and the people that service the machines...the people that service the cars that the people drive to service the machines...etc... I imagine it's going to take a while to find something to completely replace it, generations possibly. What do those people do to survive in the mean time?
If you ask most people don't you think they would say they value people over money? I don't think I've ever met or heard a person say, "I think money is more important than human lives." Is it possible to be rich and still value peole over money? Wouldn't we all be considered rich by another standard? So, who are these money grubbing corporate scum-bags that don't care about anything but the almighty dollar and are responsible for all that is bad in the world? I've never me one personally, or at least one that would admit to it. How are we supposed to find them and get rid of them if we can't even seem to agree on who they are?
From everything I've read about the Black Panther party it was an amazing organization. How come it doesn't exist anymore? I know a lot of people believe that it was broken up by the government. So how come there aren't more people rebelling against that? How come people aren't rioting in the streets like Egypt right now?
As far as the Amish go I think they're pretty cool too but there's some other little rules about being Amish, and I'm not just talking about the funny beards, that I don't think I could jive with so much. Are all aspects of being Amish integeral for that system to work properly?
I love what I've read so far about the Venus project. Jacque Fresco is a very wise man. I hope more people listen to him. I keep coming up with the same question though. How do we start? We can't just jump into the Venus project. I'm guessing I'll discover more about this the more I read but I still have to pay rent in the mean time and write my songs and cook dinner and feed the cat and play guitar and fill orders from the distro.... Where do we start?
Sun, 02/13/2011 - 8:59pm
#7
Right on...
Nothin' wrong with playing some Devil's advocate.
If we assume that the people who depend on tobacco are making some kind of living wage, such that they've been able to provide shelter for themselves, really all they'd need is food and power, right? A main concern in any transition period from a monetary economy to a non monetary economy would be redistribution of existing resources. We already have all the means to make sure everyone can get food, we just restrict access, based on the ability to pay.
As an art handler, I met many of the people who wouldn't describe themselves as vampiric leeches upon society but, they are and were. We had a client who, at the time, owned the most expensive residence in the country. He had at least two other residences residences, that I was aware of, as well. He had a dining room that submerged completely, servants could set and clear places, without ever being seen by guests. All his residences have a staff, whether he is there or not.
The reason you never meet these people, they insulate themselves from everyday life. They don't ever have to meet you. They don't need to even go outside, ever again. Everything they want can be brought to them. If only 5 or 10% of the people have 90% of the wealth, we're headed for French Revolution style upheaval. It just can't last much longer. It would be far better to just realize the folly of continuing down a path predicated on inequity and work towards a truly interdependent society. Save a lot of potential bloodshed that way.
To find the truly evil people, look to firms like Brown & Root, J.P. Morgan/Chase, XE(formerly Blackwater, I think). Think Enron-style corporatists, think Bernie Madoff style operators and the legions of corrupt politicians who make their machinations possible.
Oooooh, Simpsons about to come on, must cut rant short! Back later with more, hopefully some practical real life actions.
Have you ever read Ishmael or The Story of B by Daniel Quinn? Both are excellent, fairly quick reads, which address certain false premises perpetuated by our culture.
Thu, 02/24/2011 - 8:22am
#8
Okay
I think it is time to cut salaries of overpaid, over-privileged politicians and funnel that money back to local community endeavors.
Cut the salaries of the President, VP, Senate, House Reps. House reps make $175,000. I'm thinking that should be cut to no more than $75,000. That money could be put towards any number of things. Food/shelter/services for abused women/children, improved services and rehabilitation for returning veterans, vocational and educational training for those at or below poverty level.
Also, the amount of money spent on election campaigns is obscene. Equal time for candidates on TV and a hard cap on campaign finance. Absolutely zero revenue from corporate, private, and public interests. No more fund raisers.
Tax corporations, tax churches, tax the wealthy. All of these entities are pro wealth redistribution, as long as the wealth flows towards them.
I still think money is silly and we should outgrow it. Profit impedes progress.
We could put on a show where the price of admission was a winter coat. Almost everybody has an old winter coat they don't they don't really wear anymore (or at least I do, I don't know). Then the coats go to New York Cares.
It's not starting a big movement or anything, and maybe the winter is almost over, but at least a couple of people that are cold could get some coats out of it.
http://www.doctorsquid.com