Why do you protest?

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Bee K's picture
Bee K
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Neil's latest post inspired this, but I think it deserves its own thread.

I'm curious: why do people protest and what do you think makes an effective protest? When is meeting for a few scheduled hours on a weekend effective, and when is it necessary to overturn tanks? It seems like for whatever reason (maybe just because I'm noticing it) there have been a lot of scheduled protests lately. Mostly on Saturdays with start times and end times, though not always. Often with permits from the city, though not always. Meanwhile, in the Middle East, the protests there are on a different scale to say the least.

I recall a friend of mine who was arrested in Washington DC protesting Gitmo on the steps of the Supreme Court. He said that when he was in jail, he met a bunch of what he described as "professional protesters" who basically spend their time protesting for different causes around the US. They were so fragmented into separate groups, all sitting in that large cell, that he felt he understood why protesting would never work in America...our anger isn't focuses enough as a group.

Thoughts?

Neil's picture
Neil
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i protest because i care.

Um, I have a voice and I choose to use it.

The question should really be, why don't more people protest?

Has doing nothing ever accomplished anything?

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Neil's picture
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furthermore...

"Professional protesters" don't exist, and I think you are marginalizing people who choose to use their voice. Should I have to choose between protesting the war in Afghanistan or protesting against corporate tax dodgers or protesting the assault on workers rights? Of course not. I applaud people who can take the time to speak out against what they believe is wrong and injust. In fact, I wish I could spend more of my time protesting, but I have to work full-time, and despite all of my visits to Monster.com, I have been unable to find postings for any of those sweet "professional protesting" gigs.

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Neil's picture
Neil
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but for the record...

I would not hesitate to overturn a tank, given the opportunity.

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Neil's picture
Neil
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"Hulk mad!"

"Hulk mad!"

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MMM's picture
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I think the short answer

I think the short answer would be something like: Because I can. I think it's an important right that should not be taken for granted. I think the less we use certian rights the easier it is for governments to marginalize them take them away.

I think protests are a great way to draw attention to important issues. If a protest draws attention on any level then I think it accomplishes something. I don't think you have to overthrow the government to conduct an effect protest. It's all part of raising a general consciousness and helping to create a momentum. Every major social movement in the history of our country and probably all of Western Civilization involved some kind of protest. Seems like a no brainer to me.

"Here to do great things."

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"Hulk concur!"

"Hulk concur!"

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Barry Bliss's picture
Barry Bliss
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pro-test

A lot of gatherings that are called protests are not protests, or if they are (depending on exactly how you use/define the word) they carry no weight.
If you are not risking something you are not doing anything of any consequence whatsoever.
Holding a sign in a legal way where the cop tells you to is not a protest to me. It's a gathering.

When Gandhi did the salt walk his bodily freedom and even his life was at risk as he had informed those in power that he was going to break their law.
When he reached his destination he broke the law.
I call that protest.

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Neil
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hmm...

I find this concept troubling, Barry. Is it your opinion that no should listen to me unless I do something illegal?

on a side note, I'm doing something illegal right now, but I don't think that it's making much of an impact.

oh wait, now it is.

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Tone-new
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Pro-Anti-Test

I think Matt is on to something here--If a group of people gather with the particular aim of getting their point across, especially if it is a minority opinion, or calling out some policy or action that is being carried out, its a protest. How much impact it has is more of a case-by-case basis. The fact that people see each other, are seen by other people, come together--those things all have their impact, even if only long-term.

For instance, the 1962 March on Washington--a totally legal peaceful demonstration with no "sacrifice"--had a galvanizing effect on the embryonic civil rights movement. Would there have been desegregation without sit-ins and illegal marches in the south, and then later militant groups like the Panthers and the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee? No. But would it have happened without the sympathy of thousands of "less militant" people all across the country? No. So the two things kind of worked together.

I was at some of the first anti-Vietnam war demos in the early 60s--these were all very legal marches (mostly of a hundred people at most) but they brought attention to something most people knew little about at the time. They were like seeds for the future. Being in the street--even legally--breaks the plane of regular existence, can put you in a different mindspace where you begin to think about what's possible.

As for the professional protesters--I'm with Neil on this one--I would applaud those people as well. And as for people not having focused anger--well it always seems like that until a big unifying cause rears its head. Not to belittle it--that is a real problem, and people do have to be thinking about what the central problem is and how best to resist that. But the same argument could have been made at any time in the 60s--indeed, it wasn't until very late in the 60s that the civil rights movement and the anti war movement were really going in (sort of) the same direction.

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Of course you have the right to define words as you see fit.

I've said on here before that to me the 1963 Washington March was more a celebration of past protest victories than itself being a protest.

All the protests I know of that caused something to shift contained illegal activity at some point.
Dr. King went to jail.
Gandhi broke the law reguarly.
You may not believe Egyptians are going to get any kind of permanent change, but the shift in Egypt was due to massive amounts of people breaking the law (ignoring curfews for instance).

I still believe that if you live a noble life you protest 24/7 without even trying to.
I also believe at this point that if you live a noble life you will inevitably break the law. ("the law" meaning the (wo)man-made convenient rules of the day.)

PS Can someone explain to me how Manhattan's Critical Mass works?
My understanding is it's legal for a group to ride their bikes yet people get arrested and have their bikes taken.
Is it that it's illegal for folks to ride their bikes when it disrupts automobile traffic?

Bee K's picture
Bee K
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Barry brings up an issue that

Barry brings up an issue that emphasizes a point/question that I didn't articulate before, which is: when are certain methods/levels/intensities of protest more important than others. Critical Mass is a good example of a protest where deserves a certain method. If citizens walked down to city hall with a bunch of signs to call out a policy are action because they can regarding bicycles, it would be a protest, sure. But would it be an appropriate one for the issue? The route that Critical Mass has taken to make their voice heard seems to me more appropriate. The same applies to any scheduled protest: do all issues require the same kind of protest. If your goal is not just to have your voice heard, but to use a protest to gain some sort of momentum, then what is adequate and what isn't? Is there a point where the methods in which people choose to protest have become so rote that they are ineffective?

The term legal is an interesting one. If you claim that your protest is legal, then why have you chosen to use that term? Why use it as a descriptor at all? Does it make the protest more "good/mature/responsible/effective," etc? When should the law be abided by and when shouldn't it? When is the city's permission needed and when should it not be?

I'm trying to treat a protest as a means to an end, not as an end in itself. If you are going to do that, you need to assess each protest on its own terms. A violent riot in a student cafeteria over unhealthy lunch options is a bit excessive, so that's an example of where "breaking the law" is not necessarily better. Encouraging risk or sacrifice is not what I'm going for here. Rather, I'd like to ask anyone on this board about the protests that, say, they went to in the past year. Which ones were more effective than others? Which were lame? Why do you feel that way? Or, do you feel like every one was an equal success?

Lots of thoughts there, just getting them out. Feel free to respond or not.

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I think how effective any

I think how effective any particular act of protest is very hard to decide. I'm sure the guy that shot all those people in Arizona thought he was conducting some kind of protest.

When I went to the very small recent protest in Time Square, against the war in Afghanistan, there were people who protested legally by gathering in a small group and holding up signs and giving speeches. And then a small group of people decided to conduct an act of civil disobedience by standing in the middle of the road and stopping traffic holding up anti war signs. After a short period of time they were hand cuffed and arrested. That part of the protest only lasted about 10 or 15 minutes within a few hours Times Square was back to normal like nothing happened. But being there I really understood the impact.

For a very brief moment the Antiwar movement stopped the traffic in Times Square. I'm sure a number of people that walked by noticed it. Maybe a few will remember it for the rest of their lives like me. Maybe some peole just thought it was an annoyin inconvenience as they made their way over to the ESPN bar? The city has a record forever that will say that a handful of people felt so strongly about this issue that they got arrested on this day in protest. Perhaps someday it will be used for some kind of research. I don't think there was a lot of press but it fueled my batteries to continue attending things like this for as much as I can as long as I live. Most of the people protesting on that day were old. I thought that was sad. But it also made me under stand that a lot of these people have the wisdom of seeing how protest can develop long term results. That one little thing wasn't going to stop the war. It was just a spark. But as the saying goes....

It's easy to feel like most protests are boring or pointless while you're doing one. It's because we don't always see the immediate results. Sometimes they don't even happen in our lifetime. I can't think of something more beautiful than people sacrificing their time and energy for something that they might not even live to see happen.

Our attention spans are very short these days. It's much harder for this generation that is so used communication happening so fast. We're told so much about how corrupt and untrustworthy our government is that we start to feel like it's pointless. But it takes a lot of time and effort to for even little changes to sink into large populations. It seems only logical to me that unless you get out there and express yourself that our representatives and leaders would assume that we are happy with the status quo.

"Here to do great things."

Bee K's picture
Bee K
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I like that post, MMM,

I like that post, MMM, thanks!