Vote for Change
Mon, 11/15/2010 - 2:53pm
#52
I disagree
I think you need to expect a good amount of infelicitousness when you're dealing with neurotic, emotional artist types.
I think this sounds condescending. Noone gets a free pass to disrespect someone just because they're an "artist" type. It's one thing when you are doing your art but when we're having a conversation everyone can learn to deal with their anger in a civil way. If not then take a fucking time out! I wouldn't tolerate it from strangers so why should I tolerate it from someone I consider a friend? People throw around a lot of hostile language and behavior and expect people to tolerate it just because they're a neurotic artist or they're on some kind of prophet trip? Bullshit! I think it's part of the problem and I'll call bullshit on that every time. It's nothing but repressed male aggression and it's the root of pretty much all of the problems we're talking about here in my opinion.
Sorry Ben. Didn't mean to take this out on you personally. It just strikes a cord with me. Thanks for contributing.
Wed, 11/10/2010 - 8:18pm
#53
Here's a blast from the past:
I love how the "Unity Campaign" pats themselves on the back at the bottom:
The Bottom Line: "Ralph Don’t Run" and "The Unity Campaign" helped drive Nader’s vote total from nearly 3% in 2000 to less than 0.4% in 2004.
Considering the Green Party needed 5% of the vote in order to get federal funding for the next election cycle, I don't see as something to be proud of. In the 2008 election, Obama did what the Democrats usually do: co-opted the platforms & promises of progressive Third Party candidates and then didn't follow through with them...yet.
Wed, 11/10/2010 - 11:24pm
#54
What Does Voting Change?
Did anyone really believe that voting for Obama was going to change anything? One day our economy was in the crapper, we have terrorist threats & we were at war(?), then Obama gets elected & POOF! Jan 21, 2010 and the world is once again a bright & sunny place? Pick any election I'm just trying to make a point here.
If you really want to make/see a change there's only 1 way I know of
GET INVOLVED! And not only by voting, I mean really get involved. What is it exactly you feel your neighborhood needs? Safer streets? Cleaner streets? Better schools? Find out what you can do to help then get to it! While I do vote, every politician, no matter what party they belong to, has their own agenda. We all have our own agenda's. Figure out what your agenda is then go out & make the change you want on a higher level then just posting about it here, talking about changes you'd like to see done to your friends & neighbors.
If you truly want to see change then be a part of it and make it happen! Don't leave the work to others. Get yerself out there! That's the only way its going to happen.
Thu, 11/11/2010 - 6:42pm
#55
is the system broken?
It seems that a major argument for not voting is that "the system is broken."
I'm interested in getting beyond the rhetoric...
What system are you talking about specifically?
How is the system supposed to work?
In what way is the system malfunctioning?
How would you suggest fixing the system?
Fri, 11/12/2010 - 12:44am
#56
This is why
That idea of having people get together and talk about this kind of stuff that came up once or twice on the old board was such a good idea.
Getting into Neil's 4 questions is more than a bulletin board can handle. I have plenty of ideas on this, as I also think Barry, Amos, Ben, Matt and Jeannie have. Matt and I have occasionally talked about this, but not often enough. It would be fun to try and get everyone in one room (or maybe not so much fun--but at least interesting).
Fri, 11/12/2010 - 9:39am
#57
Neil
The system isn't broken. Its not a perfect system. However, its the best system anyone's come up with so far. There is no perfect system. When you have this many people with this many ideas & opinions you're never going to have a system that pleases everyone.
The system, if I'm following this thread correctly, is government and all it encompasses, voting, elected officials, political parties.
Fri, 11/12/2010 - 5:35pm
#58
Tone
If I have one more thing to drag myself out to instead of sit at home and mix my record it will mean the terrorists have won.
Sat, 11/13/2010 - 12:29am
#59
Ben
Ha ha well we wouldn't want that, would we? I wasn't necessarily thinking of this week, but maybe some time in the future.
Mon, 11/15/2010 - 9:44am
#60
To be as clear as possible.......
1. I stated someone was a moron only if they saw my life as deficient as a result of not voting.
2. I do not believe Bee K, Jeff, or Matt to be morons, because I trust that they are too wise to judge me--and especially to judge me incorrectly.
3. My karma is such that it would be irresponsible and moronic for me to vote.
4. We all have unique karma and unique missions to carry out.
5. I don't concentrate on not-voting.
I concentrate on living my life ie. paying my karmic debt. It's just that voting is no part of that.
Mon, 11/15/2010 - 12:24pm
#61
My reply to your previous post
Barry, I'd like to apologize for the flippant nature of my reply to your previous post. It has no place in polite, civil discourse, especially when there is no way for me to indicate clearly that portions of it were meant to lighten the heavy tone of this whole discussion. (Plus, given the limitless potential of human beings, is the concept of human telepathy so far fetched?) Especially since it is clear that this subject shouldn't be taken lightly.
I consider you my friend. I value your opinion. I do hope you will forgive me, though I would understand if you didn't. Until you give me reason, through some inconsistency between your stated ideals and your observable behaviors, I will and do consider you to be a person of utmost integrity. It would be contrary to my own goals to, in any way, marginalize or attempt to marginalize you or your beliefs, just because I may not agree with some of your beliefs or opinions.
It would appear to me that we have similar goals of contributing to the evolution of our species. To moving beyond the excuse of explaining away certain detestable behaviors as "human nature". To set a new, higher standard for human behavior. To placing what is good for all humanity above what is expedient or serves the interests of a small group or even a majority. I have said it before, 50 million Elvis fans can be wrong. Perhaps not about Elvis but, our history is littered with widely held assertions that have since been debunked. The earth as the center of our universe immediately comes to mind.
These are interesting articles and opinions, though they could be considered off topic, by some. I really don't think they are too far off topic, given my views on systemic government corruption and the futility of attempting to change a corrupt system, using the tools provided by that same corrupt institution.
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/11/14/trials
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/14/opinion/14rich.html?pagewanted=1&src=t...
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/14/us/14nazis.html?src=twrhp
Also, could you please re-link the film you posted on the old OJ board? You know, the guy I criticized for asking for money. Though I questioned the money thing (mostly because I don't have any and felt excluded, my problem, not his), I did find the message extremely informative and potentially beneficial, should enough people be exposed to it. I'd like to do my part to help expose more people to that message. I think things like that are far more effective than voting. Direct action will always be better than delegated action, especially if the delegates are free to ignore the will of their constituents, as they are now.
Mon, 11/15/2010 - 3:11pm
#62
Thanks Barry...
I can't truly say whether you're life is deficient or not from you "not voting." I can only say that I believe mine is.
I put the board on lockdown via SelfControl for 24 hours and I come back to this. It's like when you go to the bathroom in a restaurant and your food is there when you return. This is a great thread.
Matt, I think you need to expect a good amount of infelicitousness when you're dealing with neurotic, emotional artist types. Oh...you've just gotta know...that we're really there...and we really ca-are.