A good song?
Thu, 03/03/2011 - 10:09am
I'm a little concerned about the noticeable lack of discussion about music on a website that has music in the title. I love learning about politics and stuff but, let's face it, it's the music that has brought us together in the first place. I was talking to Barry about why there isn't a good comprehensive documentary movie about the scene for the past 20 years or so. Who wants to take that on?!?
My other recent thoughts were about what makes a good song. I've heard some of you theorize about what makes a good song through the years. Some of it I agreed with and some of it I didn't. I think it might be fun to take the topic on here. If you have trouble wording it you might wanna think about what your favorite songs are and why? Or describe one of the best songs you ever wrote?
One of my favorite songs of all time is "Paranoid Eyes" by Pink Floyd. That song makes me cry almost every time I hear it. Part of it is because of the lyrics. Another part has to do with the piano work and the acoustic guitar part that comes in for the bridge, oh and the trumpet. And another part has to do with the production and the mysterious ambience and voices that come in and out of the mix. Also the panned vibraslap, amazing. There are so many other great things about this song but I suppose an even bigger part has to do with one time I listened to that entire album The Final Cut while tripping on acid, in college, and it's sort of had a little resonating residence in my soul ever since.
What's one of your favorite songs and why?
Or who is gonna take on this Sidewalk Scene/Antifolk movie?
Mon, 03/07/2011 - 11:20am
#2
Rednecks
"Rednecks" is the song that made me pay attention to Randy Newman. My friend got the GOOD OLD BOYS album from Goodwill for a dollar or something, and he played it for me, narrating the little changes in how he's critical of the South but then he doesn't let the North off the hook, and in fact, gives them a meaner backhand.
I liked the way that he had created a distinct character and sang from that character's point-of-view. I was so happy when my friend gave me that record when he moved out of that house. "Naked Man" has a bunch of skips, which kind of bums me out, but I digress.
Whenever I try to sway people to Randy Newman -- most folks seem pretty jaded by his recent Disney work -- I usually try something from GOOD OLD BOYS. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
Thu, 03/03/2011 - 11:36am
#3
hmmm...
It would be hard to choose a "favorite" song, but I can tell you there are a few tunes that have stuck with me ever since I first heard them. For one, Beck's "Golden Age". The sound of that warm, sparkly, full acoustic guitar that opens the song, sets up a vibe that gets twisted and warbled around by such wonderful sounds. The subtle slide guitar, maybe its a pedal steel, and then the spiky glockenspiel picks ups the melody, and then waves of sounds come in and out, at times convulsing. And what a mood, with spooky backing vocals and Beck's soft mouth barely moving as he's singing just behind the beat. I love this whole record because of the wonderful sound collages that happen. The snare on this song is also a wonderfully uneffected smash and the big electric guitar that enters from one side with a bang. I just love it!
Okay, Elliott Smith's "between the bars". The lyrics are so moving. He tells the story of a cheating lover who has been caught. He knows everything about them, how to hurt them and how to love them, but chooses to accept them for who their are... flawed. Plus his sweet, soft delivery and heavy breaths in between phrases, its like he his whispering into your ear and then gasping for air. "The people you've been before, that you don't want around anymore." How many people do I know like that? So many! ;)
Thu, 03/03/2011 - 11:41am
#4
Music - What Happened?
Scott Miller is probably one of the greatest songwriters of the past 25 years, first with Game Theory in the 80s and then Loud Family in the 90s. Several years ago he started a project on his website called "Music - What Happened?" where he takes every year between the 1950s and the present, picks a bunch of songs from each year, and writes about them. It's an amazing read, and he has recently re-written a lot of them for a new book. But you can still read the original project:
Here is the page for 1994, just to pick an arbitrary starting point:
http://loudfamily.com/mwh/1994.html
Here is the index for all the years:
http://loudfamily.com/mwh/index.html
HIGHEST RECOMMENDATION
Thu, 03/03/2011 - 2:16pm
#5
For my money
What makes a song good, what makes any art good, is it's ability to create an emotional response in its audience. It doesn't have to make you necessarily cry your eyes out or anything, maybe it just makes you want to shake your butt (an emotion that I wish had a name).
And, of course, there's a difference between the art of music and the craft of music. I can hear, I don't know, Carlos Santana for example, shredding on Black Magic Woman or something, and I can recognize that he's nailing it, but it still won't speak to me.
I don't know exactly what I'm getting at.
Anyway, this is my favorite song, ever. If my life had a falling in love montage, it would be edited to this:
Fri, 03/04/2011 - 12:03am
#6
Sex Pistols?
I thought it was funny when Bee K said
"Outside of several mindblowing songs, The Sex Pistols suck."
Dude, the Sex Pistols only have one album. How can a band's existence be deemed to "suck" if the entirely of their official output contains a pretty good proportion of "mindblowing" songs? Not just one or two but "several," that are not just pretty good but "mindblowing!" And still the overall judgement is that they "suck"????
This has nothing to do with whether or not I like the Sex Pistols -
I can understand if someone doesn't like the Sex Pistols. I can also understand someone loving the Sex Pistols. But how can you think SOME of their material is mindblowing AND think other stuff of theirs sucks? Is there really that big a difference in quality between ANY of the songs on Never Mind the Bollocks? Sure maybe someone might like Sub-Mission better than they like Pretty Vacant or whatever - but the whole album is pretty damn consistent. I'm really curious what kind of aesthetic can find some of those songs mindblowing and other songs so sucky that the whole band is deemed to BASICALLY suck. What an unusual opinion! The Stooges are way more guilty of "filler" tracks than the Sex Pistols but does that mean that "outside of several mindblowing songs" the Stooges suck?
(Of course this leaves out "The Great Rock & Roll Swindle" or the dozen other fake Sex Pistols albums that contain out-takes and live stuff and other bands (Black Arabs, anybody? Temple Tudor?) and other perhaps sucky material, otherwise that's like judging Led Zeppelin based on Jimmy Page's solo albums.)
I don't even know why I'm writing this, just musing out loud to myself.
Fri, 03/04/2011 - 9:02am
#7
I agree with what you said
I agree with what you said about the album Jeff. I friggin love this album. I first heard it in Jr. High and it probably inspired me wanna play electic guitar more than any other album at the time. Oddly enough, before I heard Bullocks I'd only listened to "hardcore" punk and it actually opened up my vocabulary for what Punk could be and was sort of a gateway to more diverse punk inspired bands like The Clash and The Damned and The Cramps.
Bee K can clearly speak for himslef but maybe he meant The Sex Pistols as a live band sucked? Like, Sid Viscious, famously known for being the bass player of The Sex Pistols, could barely play the bass and didn't play a note on their most famous album.
Fri, 03/04/2011 - 9:17am
#8
Allow me to clarify - I think
Allow me to clarify - I think there is an incredibly amount of filler on their one album. So much so that while "Anarchy in the UK," and "God Save the Queen" and maybe "Holidays in the Sun" deserve to be on greatest song lists, the album--which is often listed on greatest lists--doesn't. I'm just tired of it muscling out greater records and being given an automatic spot when so many of the compositions blow. In terms of impact, sure, the Sex Pistols were huge. But in terms of record, the Ramones and the Clash have a much more impressive legacy.
So maybe the Sex Pistols are a good example of why there are no rules: a band that basically sucks and throws together a single inconsistent record backed by a brilliant PR campaign can still create a handful of mind-blowing songs. We all have at least a few of those in us.
But MMM, we could have kept going long after people had stopped on your tribute night and we'd still have great songs to play. With the Sex Pistols, a tribute night would have people yawning after the first exciting 10 minutes.
Fri, 03/04/2011 - 9:43am
#9
The Sex Pistols were always
One little confession about Bullocks, Submission was my favorite track on the album when I first heard it.
The Sex Pistols were always about hype. It was always about maximuzing profitability out of the lowest common denominator. I read a book about Malcolm Mclaren and this was very much his M.O. Mclaren understood publicity and knew how to use it. I'm clearly clueless about that. I find him fascinating.
Fri, 03/04/2011 - 8:47am
#10
Sex Pistols
1. True. Never Mind the Bollocks was their only album.
Rock and Roll Swindle is good for the few live early band things, like Roadrunner and No Fun (both covers), but that's it.
2. True. The album is quite consistent. All the songs are basically the same with just different lyrics and different chord changes.
3. To me, there has never been a better band and there never will be.
Fri, 03/04/2011 - 9:21am
#11
Yeah, but you don't give a
Yeah, but you don't give a shit that Michael Jackson died, Barry. How can I trust your opinion ever again?
Fri, 03/04/2011 - 2:10pm
#12
My friend Tris McCall writes
My friend Tris McCall writes about music for the Jersey Star Ledger and contributes to their Song A Day Column. he doesn't talk about what makes a song good in the abstract, but he delves into individual songs he likes. Here are a few links:
Song of the Day: 'The Ballad of John and Yoko,' The Beatles
http://www.nj.com/entertainment/music/index.ssf/2010/12/song_of_the_day_...
Song of the Day: 'Don't Curse,' Heavy D
http://www.nj.com/entertainment/music/index.ssf/2011/03/song_of_the_day_...
Song of the Day: 'Better Than a Hallelujah,' Amy Grant
http://www.nj.com/entertainment/music/index.ssf/2011/02/song_of_the_day_...
Song of the Day: 'Flight of Icarus,' Iron Maiden
http://www.nj.com/entertainment/music/index.ssf/2011/02/song_of_the_day_...
Song of the Day, 'From a Motel 6,' Yo La Tengo
http://www.nj.com/entertainment/music/index.ssf/2010/09/song_of_the_day_...
Fri, 03/04/2011 - 3:03pm
#13
I'm still baffled -
how can
I'm still baffled -
how can you say you LOVE "Anarchy in the UK" or "Holidays in the Sun" or "God Save the Queen" and NOT even LIKE "Submission" or "Bodies" or "Pretty Vacant" or every other song on that album?!?!? They all deliver the exact same standard of thrills!! If you like one you'll like the others!! If you don't like one you won't like any of them!! There is basically NO difference in aesthetic or performance or intent or quality!!
Which is completely UNLIKE the other bands you mention -
the Clash for one - it makes TOTAL sense that somebody could hear the Clash and LOVE "White Riot" but hate "Stay Free", or LOVE "Brand New Cadillac" but hate "Straight to Hell" - even within any one single Clash album there is a complete diversity of material, in song-writing quality, in tempo, in instrumentation, in attitude.
Ditto for the Ramones, but to a lesser extent - you can perhaps like their sweeter poppy side and dislike their snotty/sleazy/ragged side, or vice versa - in any case, they have more than ONE side, and like the Clash, the quality of songwriting is a bit variable over their recorded output.
But Never Mind the Bollocks??? How can you call some of it total crap and some of it totally brilliant?
I still find this opinion really bizarre. Not "wrong", just bizarre!
It seems to me you either like Never Mind the Bollocks or you don't, but no matter which way you slice them they ALL remain 100% Sex Pistols songs.
PS - And I have never until this moment made any connection between the fact that arguably the biggest, most game-changing (in the public eye) two "punky" albums of all time both start with the words "never" and "mind" - what's up with that?? I've never seen this mentioned anywhere, and have never noticed it.
PPS - yeah, Submission is maybe my favorite track on Bollocks - first one that drew me in, and the one I'm most prone to cover.
PPPS - but that doesn't mean I think the others are shite!
Fri, 03/04/2011 - 3:49pm
#14
Pee Pee Ehhhhssss
Look, to be fair, I pulled the record out for the first time in a few years after my earlier posts and cranked it loud. Mid-way through the record I kept thinking, "Christ, can we just get to God Save the Queen already?"
I'll submit to a cat scan if need be, but I had
no feeeeeeelings
for any other songs
the record is too long
HAR HAR HAR
Fri, 03/04/2011 - 4:16pm
#15
Jeff Lynn wrote some good songs
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DEwaz0Fzewns&v=Ewaz0Fzewns&gl=US
Jeff Lynn wrote some good songs...
Sun, 03/06/2011 - 11:46am
#16
Like what?
Like what?
Sun, 03/06/2011 - 4:42pm
#17
um, like this...
Sun, 03/06/2011 - 4:41pm
#18
or these...
and he co-wrote these songs:
Mon, 03/07/2011 - 9:41am
#19
Cool.
What do you like about these songs?
I just read a good article in Tape Op about the guy that recorded a lot of those early ELO albums. He also worked with Queen. Pretty amazing stuff from a produciton standpoint as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhold_Mack
Mon, 03/07/2011 - 12:09pm
#20
A good song
I guess the first thing is, does it provoke a visceral response from the listener? A good song always makes you feel something. A good song will enhance a mood. When I was s teenager, I listened to a lot of aggressive music. Rarely do I listen to Slayer or Celtic Frost anymore but, when I do, I still enjoy it. Well, not so much the Celtic Frost, except for one monstrous riff, I mostly just liked their awesome album cover designs.
How can a person who listened to the Dead Kennedy's, Minor Threat and Black Flag, every day, for well over a year, ever like Rock Me Amadeus by Falco or Freedom by George Michael? I mean, Falco might not sound so good to me now but, I bet Freedom would. I loved AC/DC, especially the Bon Scott years but plenty of the Johnson stuff too, why don't I like The Cult?
I like songs that are made of sounds and textures as opposed to just notes and time signatures. Math rock makes me ill but, I have a great deal of respect for technical prowess. And yet, I don't think I'll ever intentionally put on an Yngvie Malmsteen cut for pleasure. Maybe to learn some classical phrasing trick but yeah...no.
I like songs with a message of love and I like songs that express outrage and condemnation. I like some funny songs but, rarely do I put a tune on for a laugh.
I like non ostentatious creativity. Not big in to spectacle, unless it feels honest. But I dig Funkadelic and the Happy Mondays.
Something else that fascinates me...songs where I really like the first minute or two, then lose interest in. A good example of this for me is "Over The Hills and Far Away" by Zeppelin. Love the acoustic intro and first verse then, as soon as the song hits full stride, I'm all, "Meh." Happens a lot with The Doors too. Things usually start off well enough, then that keyboard just drones on and fucking on, seemingly endlessly, then the super cheezy drunk guy comes back with more dumb words. Except for "The Soft Parade". That is a kickass good song
Sometimes, lyrics matter, sometimes they don't. I had a friend whose favorite Rush album was Caress of Steel, "'cause he doesn't sing so much". That's how I felt about about Smashing Pumpkins. If that dude coulda kept his mouth shut, kickass rock music. Instead, a fucking whine fest.
I guess this is a good place to ask...did anyone actually like The Strokes? I mean their music. I still haven't figured that shit out.
Mon, 03/07/2011 - 7:13pm
#21
Dude The Strokes are awesome!
I love The Strokes. I didn't get it at first. Then I dug Modern Age because I thought it sounded like Lou Reed combined with The Stooges. Then I kind of forgot about them but a couple of years ago I got back into them. I really started to pay attention to how they all work so well as a band. For starters they are amazingly tight. They seem like great musicians but not in a show boaty kind of way. They have that kind of idiosyncratic chemistry that I think comes from people that sort of grow up and learn to play by playing together. I know there are a ton of bands that sound like them or have been influence by them but I still think they have something special that sets them apart. There's very little fat on their songs. I dig that. They're also incredibly rhythmic. I like rhythmic bands. I also like band where you can listen to any individual part and it sounds cool or you can just sit back and listen to the song and it's equally enjoyable. Every thing that happens in a Strokes song is there to support the song. I love that focus. They are immediately classic sounding yet somehow fresh. I also really like the production on their first album especially. Really dig those thick ampy guitry tones and very tight sounding drums. And okay Julian C is kind of that annoying disaffected, hipstery, lead singer but at least he's not a whiner. The guys got some pipes. He's a total crooner and I dig that too. Now do they deserve as much attention as they get??? Have they been able to make another record as good as the first one? Who knows? But I still think they're a damn good band.
Wed, 03/09/2011 - 10:50am
#22
That some good...
Matt, I had no idea you had such a gift for satire. I was actually taking that last post seriously, for a minute. Then you compared a band whose music puts them in the same boat with Sugar Ray and 311, to The Stooges. That's when I knew you were either having fun at my expense or you just ate a quarter pound of hash.
I decided to have a little fun of my own. On a lark I typed "How terrible are The Strokes" into the big G and this little gem came up:
http://www.nme.com/blog/index.php?blog=140&p=7385&more=1&c=1
If I never, ever, ever hear the strokes again, that will have been too much strokes. Needless to say, I won't be clicking on that "Last Night" link. To me, that song is probably the epitome of their suckitude. This song was my introduction to the strokes, after an ocean's worth of hype. This song bores me and makes me regret not listening to something else. Unhealthy to fill one's life with regrets. So I try not to. Unfortunately for me, I had a roommate who bought Is This It AND Room on Fire. This same roommate also played lots of Coldplay and Counting Crows, two of the most craptastic bands of the past decades.
If you dig the strokes, and their music fills a need in your life, that's cool. They just happen to be the opposite of what I want when I listen to music. At best, I find them underwhelming and incredibly superficial. I secretly believe they were part of plot to make music listeners willing to expect and accept music of lessening quality. That's right, I blame the strokes for Lil'Wayne.
Randy Newman's "Good Ol' Boys" on the other hand, is truly amazing. I have fond memories of asking my dad to play "Louisiana 1929" ( I think that's the title,) for me, every night before I went to bed. Don't know why listening to a song about a terrible tragedy should help me to fall asleep. Maybe I'm just evil.
Just so you know that this isn't wasn't a personal attack, given a choice, I would put on ANY of your records before I would even consider listening to the strokes. Good lyrics, cool music that often makes unexpected but pleasing choices, crunchy guitars and an authentically laconic delivery. Waitaminitt! I think the strokes tried to steal your act, they failed, but they obviously tried.
If anybody should be pissed off, Lou Reed should be pissed off but, he's too cool fer that.
Today, I will attempt to make homemade Devildogs.
Wed, 03/09/2011 - 12:10pm
#23
Different Strokes...
I was totally serious. Never been a fan of 311, Sugar Ray, Coldplay or Counting Crows. Stylistically, I probably wouldn't lump those bands in the same group with each other? That NME article is so typical. It seems like for 5 or so years ago you couldn't look at the NME without something being writing about how The Strokes were the saviors of Rock n Roll. Typical... I didn't say they were my favorite band or that the even deserve all the credit they get. I just think they're a good band.
I don't have much to say about Randy Newman? I thought "Short People" was a funny song? "I Love LA" was pretty dumb. He seems very clever but I always found it a bit forced for my tastes. Not so down with the Toy Story soundtrack stuff that I've hear either. I listened to the Redneck song and it just seems a bit heavy handed to me.
Thu, 03/10/2011 - 2:32pm
#24
Newman
Yeah, Newman is sometimes a hard sell.
It helps if you start with a sweet song instead of a sour one. And it sometimes helps if Harry Nilsson is singing it instead.
These are both from NILSSON SINGS NEWMAN:
Wed, 03/09/2011 - 2:17pm
#25
Somebody Loves Me
"Somebody Loves Me"
music: George Gershwin,
lyrics: Ballard MacDonald and Buddy DeSylva
It's been recorded literally hundreds of times. Probably because it gets at something universal and does so, so elequently.
I like best the version performed by Cliff Edwards (Ukelele Ike) in the mid-late 1920's. I liked it enough to make a video:
Thu, 03/10/2011 - 10:07am
#26
OMG
That is the cutest thing I've seen in a long time. Really great song too. I think I want to cover it now. Thanks Steve.
Thu, 03/10/2011 - 8:25am
#27
So many elements but Idk this does it for me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUCDJjKI3nQ
I love the transitions in this song and on all of his songs; esp Sunny Day Real Estate.
I once had a conversation with a friend about what music (we were able to listen to) right after 9/11. He said that he found himself listening to *The Final Cut* over and over. I have to agree that *Paranoid Eyes* is a classic song.
I don't think there are any rules on what makes a good song. In fact, I think the listener has a lot to do with it. I've changed a lot over the years and some things I used to think were good I now think suck. Usually if I liked something because I discovered it on my own, I still like it. There are plenty of bands that I got into because everyone was saying they were great...now I can't stand some of that crap. Radiohead. Animal Collective. Outside of several mindblowing songs, The Sex Pistols suck.
I listen to over a hundred songs each week from behind the board at Sidewalk...I think that a lot of what makes the song good/bad is the person writing the song. I hear some well-written songs with interesting lyrics, but I guess that unless there is a sense of conviction, I can't get into it. Another analogy would be comparing it to my dating years...there would be times where I was out on a date with someone who was clearly intelligent and very attractive and a nice person to boot, but for reasons I couldn't quite place, I just wanted the date to be over so I could go home. I feel the same way about some performers at the open stage...they are clearly talented, but man, I just need to step out and make myself a coffee.
*************
A few random thoughts -
- I didn't like The Fountains of Wayne's *Utopia Parkway* record because, while it was well constructed, I felt like the songwriters were painting pictures of their characters that were a little too shallow and mocking. But *Welcome Interstate Mangers* was different...about 3/4 of the songs on their had the same level of craft, but there was a sense like the writers cared about the characters a bit more. The images of business men who are drunk, sleeping in airports with their suitcases being used as pillows and wondering why they aren't happy, the corporate husband who loves his wife but is dependent on her being the only bright spot of his existence...there was an undercurrent of compassion in a lot of those songs that I really liked. The rest of them could have been on *Parkway* and I didn't care for them.
- Protest songs that overreach and are unfocused, complaining about too much in one song, usually suck. Barry Bliss is the only protest songwriter I've heard who can throw down a laundry list of complaints in a single song and make it work.
- Songs that clearly weren't edited to protect the feelings of the audience are always better than the ones where the listener is treated with kid gloves.
- This is one of my favorite songs: